Jamie Lee  0:01  
Welcome to risky conversations. And why? Because everything that's worthwhile is on the other side of a risky conversation, and I'm really happy to have my former neighbor and current friend also a fellow executive coach. Rosie Singh, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Jamie, thanks for having me. I'm so excited. Yay. We literally used to live around the corner from from each other when I lived in Hudson Yards in Manhattan, and Rosie is still, you know, on the island of Manhattan, still so fancy. Not quite, but I'm still here. I'm still here, and I moved across the river, but I've been following Rosie for a while, and she has an amazing executive coaching practice, and she writes about how to use AI better, how to use AI in a smart, strategic way for your career search, for your job search. And I thought we gotta have Rosie come on to the podcast and tell us about all of it. And we were just having a quick conversation about her company's name. So Rosie, maybe you can educate us, enlighten us. How do we what is your company and what is the meaning behind its name? Yeah, absolutely. So it's called yanoya. Then, you know, yeah means Beautiful Mind in Greek and so funny enough, speaking of AI, when I was kind of thinking about what I wanted to call this company, I used chat GPT. I'm like, you know, I set my parameters. I want one word. I want it to mean something. I don't remember the exact prompt that I'd use, but I wanted it to mean something beautiful or enlightened, something about us as something beautiful. I don't remember exactly what I had put in, but I had read like, a bunch of names, and, you know, was the one that came up. It's different, it's unique, but beautiful mind, I think, like, we all possess this, and that's really something that really speaks to me. Because I think that we all have our inner beauty. And, you know, we don't always see it. We need coaches like you and I to sort of bring that inner beauty out to the forefront of our conversations and our dialog. And I think that's, you know, that's what a coach does. But it's not that we don't have it ourselves, right? So it's one of those things that I just kind of, the more I thought about it, the more I slept on it, the more people were like, it's confusing, and I don't know how, how you going to say that? And how do you spell it? Yeah. Yeah. So that's the other thing. So it's e, u, N, O, I, A, is the actual spelling. But one late fall night when I was kind of deciding that I wanted to buy this business and kind of get it get started, I was okay tonight, I'm going to buy I'm going to buy the website, I'm going to buy the domain, like this is it? Once I do this, there's no turning back, and I bought the wrong domain. So I bought e, u, N, I, O, A, I didn't see it. It was probably around 1130 12 o'clock at night, and it's going to cost me about $1,000 to fix it, which I was telling you, so I won't fix it yet, but it makes for a great story, right? It makes for like, the reality that we all make mistakes, like there's none of us who are perfect, and sometimes we overlook certain things, but we move on and we and we tell it. It's part of who we are. It's part of our story. So right now, it's part of my story, but yes, it is called the annoy us. Felt incorrectly, and I love it. I It bothers me, but at the same time, there's still something beautiful about it. You know, my My Korean name is spelled similar, similarly. My Korean name is Ji UN, and the second syllable un is supposed to be like the, you know, when you say the word give an right, it's supposed to be like n, but I don't know who decided this, but when they transliterated My Korean name into alphabet, it got spelled e, u, n, right. So it's, I was just looking at it. I'm like, oh, it's like, my second syllable of My Korean name, but it's pronounced differently because My Korean name is pronounced in but your company is Eunoia, which is Greek for beautiful mind, yes, yes. Love it. Very lovely. So thank you. You know, before we talk about using AI for your career, search, job. You know, job search whatever, since you and I are both executive coaches, and we work with smart people who want to, you know, further grow their careers. Yesterday, I was having a conversation with one of my clients, and she was telling me how when she mentioned to her boss. Us that she works with an executive coach, her boss said to her, Oh, I use chatgpt for that. In other words, she doesn't feel like she needs to work with a human, yeah, she could get all the answers by typing things or, you know, speaking things to chatgpt, right? And I want to hear your thoughts about that, like, since you also mentioned chatgpt, like, I use chatgpt often every day, I think it's brilliant. I just taught it to my mom, who's a Korean immigrant who still speaks broken English. Her English is still really bad, even though we lived all our lives here. So I just showed her how she can use it to immediately translate English into Korean, like she can take a photo of things life changing. But I'm sorry, I digress. What do you think about this person, this executive, who thought you don't need a coach? Could you, you could ask chatgpt. So that's interesting. I think, yeah, you could ask chatgpt. And I think that there's a function for chatgpt, and I've used it kind of act as my therapist when I need, like, an immediate relief, or, like, I'm maybe I'm spiraling, or there's something going on in my head that I just need something, and there's nobody within close reach. But I don't think it's going to ever replace the human element, the human connection. I think as humans, we all starve for it. We need it. The pandemic has definitely shown us how important it it is for us to to really be connected with each other, with one another. You know, chat GPT is great, right? It's making our life easier. It's doing things for us that we've never, I guess, or it would take us so much longer to do. But I don't think it's ever going to replace this connection. And I think the one thing is, and is that chat GPT is going to give you this sort of redundant, this sort of cookie cutter, or like the standard template of what is going on. But our life isn't standard or cookie cutter. You know, this nuance, and thing is, with a coach is it's about the nuance that really brings us alive. When I've had a coach since 2013 never I don't do anything to lose weight with that. I don't run a marathon like I do everything with a coach, you know? And I think for me, I understand the value of it. And the one thing that chat GPT cannot do, at least for now, is hold you accountable. Remember what you've said in your past dialogs, and really say, Well, you know what, Jamie, three weeks ago, you said you were going to do X Have you done that? Where are you at right? And so it's kind of up to you to hold yourself accountable and say, Hey, chat, GPT, I didn't do this. And let's you know what I mean, but that's, that's not what I mean. That's fine like you, if you are self aware enough and you have that, but if you forget or or you need that accountability to push yourself, because you know these risky conversations we're having between you and I today, this is fantastic, but the real conversations happen in the workplace that are risky, that that hurt, and they they're filled with fear. And so we have these conversations, but we need someone to say, Hey, did you actually have that conversation? How did it go? Right? And and if you're filled with doubt, and if you're filled with fear, your coach is going to say, let's celebrate what you want. Let's take a moment. You did it. It was so scary. I knew exactly you know. And all those human elements and sentiments and emotions that come alive, your coach is going to bring that out in you, not some AI machine, right? And so yes, there's a purpose for it, and yes, it could be a quick fix, but I don't think it's going to ever replace us as humans, because we all have a heart, and that heart speaks to each other's heart. And so that's at least my, my view on it. And just like you, I use it all the time. I've got, actually, multiple different AI tools that I use. So just depending on what I'm looking for, it's not just chat, GPT and I, I love it, but I'm it's never going to replace my friends. It's never going to replace my coach. It's yes and the human element, right? In fact, that's, that's a real thing, like being able to make eye contact or speak, you know, in real time with another human being. And neuroscientist lets us know, in fact, there's a whole institute behind this, the heart, I think, called the heart Brain Institute, like when you are in the presence of another human being, or even if you're talking with them or on Zoom call with them, like our

Jamie Lee  9:49  
heart and brain waves can can become entrained with each other, like we create this frequency. See right that we all sort of, I guess entrain is the right verb. Entrain into we, sort of, we create a rhythm. Now that rhythm is not the right word, but I think you know what I mean. Yeah, like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to describe, like, that very subtle nuance, something like in the air, something that is created in the in the space between people, that can't quite be replaced by all the algorithms. And I agree with you. I think you know, AI is brilliant when used well, like in my mind, AI is great for everything, all the knowledge that exists on the internet from the past? Yes, yes, that's exactly it, right? Yeah, from the past. But when we work with coaches, when we work with human beings, like we think about future things that have not happened in the past, yes, AI can hallucinate, but like when humans dream, and when human can daydream or imagine a different future that's a completely different kind of intelligence that we're using. It's not just our, you know, cognitive intelligence, it's our somatic intelligence, it's our subconscious, it's our interoceptive intelligence, it's our emotional intelligence, all these different levels of human intelligences that AI cannot quite replace because it doesn't have a body. It doesn't have a nervous system, right? It doesn't have humanity. It can fake it, but it's not quite real. So thank you for that, and maybe you can tell us a little bit about you know, your journey, Rosie, like, maybe you could tell us, you know how you became an executive coach who utilizes AI and where, I'm sorry I'm like, blanking all of a sudden, every once In a while, my perimenopause brain is like, right? Maybe you can give us a little quick overview of your journey so far that has led to you becoming the founder of Eunoia. Yeah. So I think if anybody who's ever met me in the past, nobody's surprised that this is the route that I've taken, and I think I was the last one to figure this one out. I know I've always wanted to be my own boss, and I know that there was always this curiosity about what it felt like I was one of the fortunate but also unfortunate people that I've had a series of bad bosses. And when I mean bad, I mean horribly bad, arrogant, maybe even borderline incompetent, and it kind of got to a point where, or like and just values were being misaligned. And look, I've always, you know, I've been in leadership positions. I've been in HR positions my whole life. And the reason that I was in those positions, from my perspective, was because I love having a heart, and I love caring about people, and I love showing them that they their voice matters, that their concerns are of the utmost importance, because it's one of the things that I was missing. When I was speaking to my HR leaders or my managers, they were so self serving, and they didn't care about me and my growth and my development. And I was like, I don't want to be that. And so I really wanted to be the change that I needed and that I wanted to see in the world. And that was really one of the things that I took with me. Because I always say I'm one of the worst HR leaders. And I say that because when I looked at the HR leaders that I had the privilege, or I don't know, misfortune, of working with, I hated them. They only believed for they believed in the organization. They stood for the organization, right? And they wouldn't. And there's a way to stand for the organization and protect the organization, but without losing the employee. And I knew that even when I was, you know, in my 20s, that that that was possible, but you just had to stretch yourself a little bit. And yes, you don't want to, you know, bite the hand that feeds you. So you want to be good to the organization. But there's your your your client is the employee. And so when I, you know, tried my best, and I'm sure I didn't get it 100% but my goal was always to listen, with intent, to my employees and to really be part of that. And so I say that facetiously, right, that I'm a bad HR person, because I was actually for the employee and less about the organization. It wasn't that I wasn't about the organization. I understood we need to have good employees engaged in individuals, but they were the heart and soul of our organization that moved us forward. And so all those things kind of coming together and then realizing that, you know what? I don't want another bad boss. I don't want to be told by another man that this is how it needs to be done. You know I'm like, I've done it. I'm 43 years old. This is like, please stop telling me how to do my job. If you want to do it yourself, you absolutely can. I will get out of your way. And so I did. I left my last position. I took some time to think about what I wanted to do. I lived. New York City, let me go enjoy the city in the summer. And then I just got to the point where I didn't want to. I was interviewing for positions, and I was like, This doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like it's resonating. And so I got to the point, and I've been a coach, right? Like I said, I've had a coach. I've been a coach. My job as an HR leader was always coaching my executive leaders, here's the situation, here's how to handle the employee, here's here's how to do it. What does it mean to come across as a bully like I remember, I had one of my leaders who was, who was, there's an allegation against her that she was bullying her her team. So what did that look like? And so could that be? Was a truth to what the employees were saying. So I've been coaching for years, and so it just made sense. And I think the last thing that I said I wanted to go one step further. I realized that most of us are really busy individuals, and so what I wanted to do was not only just be an executive coach to help you with your career journey, but I'll do the work for you like I'll apply for the jobs. I'll customize your resume, I'll customize your resume for each job, and I'll hit the Apply button for you, like, I'll do those things. So I wanted to go one step further, because what I wanted to do was really alleviate that stress, cuz I hate applying for jobs. Personally, I still do, but it's better. It's easier for me to do it for you as my like my coachee, versus me doing it for myself, right? It's kind of one of those things fascinating, so almost like a concierge service, yes, that's exactly yes. That's exactly yeah. Or career matchmaker, career matchmaker. I love that. So every executive coach is different. You know, everyone is entitled to shape their coaching practice any way they like. That's why I also chose to be a coach. So I don't do the kind of work that Rosie does, like I'm not a concierge, I'm not a career matchmaker. I really work with people, mostly women, and help them improve their self confidence, self advocacy, like negotiation muscle or executive leadership presence. But this is like, what you're offering is definitely, like a unique thing, right? You'll literally, like hit the Apply button for your coachees, for your clients. Wow. So maybe you can tell us more about you know how to use AI better. You wrote a great LinkedIn article on this topic, and as soon as I read it, I'm like, Rosie, we got to talk about this on the podcast, because I think it was so timely and useful. We all know how to use Chachi, PT. I mean, I even taught it to my mother, who still, you know, she's like near nearly in her 70s, and she she still speaks broken English, and I just showed her here, you take a picture with your iPad, you upload it to Chachi PT, and you ask it to translate for you, and now she has a real time simultaneous translator. You know, it's a game changer for her. But I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, tell us about how to use chat GPT better, not just like ask it to write a resume for you, but how to be more specific and thoughtful with it. Yeah. So I think, look, I think anybody who's denying the chance to learn chat GP, like, I think they're doing themselves a disservice, right? I think the world is going this way, and we can't stop it. So I do have some friends who are in our age group, and they're like, No, I will never. I will never. And I'm like, Don't do that to yourself, right? Like, this is, it's, it's a it's only a tool, and it will give you what you need, provided you give it what it needs, right? So the quality of the input will yield the quality of the output. So when I, when I talk about, like resumes or whatever, I don't want you to just feed the resume and your job description and say, write me a resume that matches this job description. One, because hiring managers have written that job description so that they see right through it. They're like, Oh, this guy just copied and pasted the job description into his resume, right? That's not what you want. What you want to do is weave those things methodically, strategically, the keywords, the buzzwords, the action items, deliverables, KPIs, within your resume. How do you do that? So it's about really taking a step back and saying, Okay, what do I need to feed it? What do I I need to give it enough information. So you know, past projects, past performance reviews, maybe filling out

Jamie Lee  19:46  
like a document that says, Okay, here's the kind of things that I've done. They don't have to be in sequence. They don't have to be they don't even have to make, like, a lot of sense. They should make some sense. But like, I think chat GPT. Or any AI tool will have the ability to sift through all of that information and then give you something. Now the second thing is, I tell people is, do not do a please build me a resume using all of this information. No, that's wrong, like, Let's build it out section by section. And the reason why I say that is, like the section by section means one. You can control what's being said. You can edit it in real time, and you can make sure that it flows right. And so we really want to make sure, like, I want to have a professional summary. Well, what's the goal of this professional summary? Your professional summary is not going to say the same thing as your bullets and your professional experience, right? Like you want to summarize. Well, what am I trying to do? I'm trying to convey to a hiring manager that I want to be a marketing professional. I am a marketing professional with 15 years of experience, blah, blah, and so you really want to do that. So you do it section by section, bit by bit, like these things are all great, but you've got to take your time. And I actually, the funny thing is, I went on this, like a webinar once was like, let me show you how to build a resume during chat GPT. And the whole time I thought I was dying. I was like, no, no. There's like 55 people on this webinar watching this guy build a resume using chat GPT, and he's doing it all wrong, like these are generic, empty, often over inflated bullet points that mean nothing. So then, how do you I have so many questions. I guess the first question I want to ask is, what do you think about the other tools that exist on the market, like take, for example, I've heard that there is a like, cover letter. I forget exactly what it was, but I think I mentioned it in a previous episode. They're like, AI apps that just exist for writing cover letters. You know, there's like, res, something res, yeah. Resi, right, and so it's not chat GPT, but it might use, you know, the chat GPT algorithm, or elements of it and it, they say, you know, they can help you build a resume in just a few minutes. All you have to do is click a button. Like, have you experimented with some of those tools? No, I haven't. No, I haven't. No, I'm a little bit a little bit old school from that perspective, like I actually use Claude. I think Claude is the better tool for copy, writing copy. I think chat GPT is, has its function, and I think it really but I haven't played with Rezi. I don't, yeah, I mean, maybe it's worth my time to see what it's all about, and so I don't really want to cast judgment on what it is. I think my only concern is, I don't want to read a resume that is empty. What I mean by that is like they have this like but I think we should give it a little bit more context, because when you say that you're speaking from the perspective of somebody who has been an HR executive. Yes, you were the person who were reviewing hundreds, if not 1000s of resumes, resumes to fill, yeah, to fill executive positions at your organization. You know when you did work inside organizations, right? So you're speaking from experience like, I can tell when somebody has just, like, copy and pasted something off the internet, and I can tell when it's the real deal. It's like, it's really a living testament to somebody's actual journey, right? And it tells a narrative that is cohesive, yes, and a narrative that you can speak to an interview, right? What's the purpose of a resume? It's something that you bring into the job application that hopefully yields you an interview. And if you can't speak to it when you're being asked about it, then what? What purpose is it actually serving? And so what I find that it does is, like I said, it either over or under inflates your experience. And he said, you kind of sound disconnected from what you've actually written in your resume. And so that's the hard part. The other part of it, I think, is, is that it's like, you read the bullet and it's like, so what? What does that mean? Increased sales by 30% How is 30% the right number? Was the goal 75 did you start at zero? And so you just made did you make $30 and you made 30% so there's this, like, it's missing context. And, yes, okay, I've been a hiring manager. I've been an HR manager. I'm, you know, I've been a recruiter. So yes, I see this, but my hiring managers were just as savvy, because they knew what they were looking for in their specific field. And so they're going to ask the school, they're going to read this like, this seems really generic, and you don't want to come off as generic when you're competing against, like, 1000s of people who are applying to absolutely, that's but yeah, like, I mean, I would post a position. And overnight, ever get 500 resumes? Now, mind you, most of them were useless. And I don't mean that they they are useless. It's just they were applying for roles that they really had no experience, or at least if they have experience, they haven't tailored it to, you know, like, I'm an office assistant and I'm trying to apply for a marketing role. We've never done any marketing, and this is not an entry level position, right? That's what I'm that's what I mean. But I'm just like, so you would get a lot of these where the they're out in left field and they're trying to apply for what it seems like is any role that comes their way, because they're so desperate for a job. So there's no we want to tell a story like you just said. It's so beautifully put the way you said it. We want to tell a story about what, what has my journey been? Where do I come from? What have I accomplished? What am I proud of? Mm, hmm, right, and that's what I want to lead with on the resume. And the unfortunate part is that these AI tools, again, don't understand nuance. They're not there yet. Maybe tomorrow. I don't know, like, I don't want to say no, but at this moment in time, you have to give it new nuance and and all it does is it puts it into English, right? Like, it's not even, like, it understands the nuance. It just is able to then write it back out and copy that you can put into your resume. I just learned this from one of my clients. You can't she, you know, she uses AI a lot. She's also in marketing, and she said, You tell chat GPT to give you the prompts. Oh, yeah, give back to chat GPT, yeah, tell it what you want to achieve. And then ask it, what prompt should I give you for me to achieve this outcome, and then you get a whole like, long line of like prompts. You're like, oh, this is brilliant. Now my job is a lot more easier, or I can tweak the prompts as I need, or can pick and choose. Let me ask you another question. Since you were a recruiter, and you did review 1000s of resumes, is it true that, on average, recruiters spend about 18 seconds on a resume, way too long. It's way too

Unknown Speaker  27:09  
long. Tell me more.

Jamie Lee  27:12  
Not giving you 18 seconds on your resume unless it's worth it. So I think the average, from what I've been told, is six, six to eight seconds. Okay, so we're really like you, literally, you scan from top to bottom. What are you looking for, keywords, job titles, company names, right? And so that's that's pretty much it's going to take me maybe even four seconds, right? If you haven't, I know exactly what I'm looking for, so I'm going to scan it really quickly to see if you've got that. So just as an example, it's just like that, like a typical like HR manager, right? So I'm going to look at, do you have any HR experience, recruitment, talent acquisition, benefits, employee relations, like those words will pop out to me, and it will only take me a few seconds to see that. Have you held the position, maybe as HR coordinator, or anything like any Junior titles, or the same title that I'm looking for. And if you do, I will stop and then give you those 18 seconds. Got it okay? So, wow, you got to make an impression in about four seconds. You do. And there's a way to do that. There's a way to do that. Yeah. And what are your thoughts about application tracking systems? Because my understanding is that organizations, mid to large organizations use ATS application tracking systems. And application tracking systems are also AI, yes, so tell us more about that. Yeah. So the goal of those is, again, you get, it's, it's humanly impossible, especially with the amount of work that corporate America gives us to review 500 resumes. Okay, so what we needed to, you know, get $500 500 resumes for a position. I have one position to fill. So what AI is going to do is scan your resume versus a job description and say, Hey, these are the 15 to 25 people I think deserve a first glance by you. So push you to the top and push the rest of the people to the bottom right, so that sort of Office admin assistant applying for a marketing manager role like there's no keywords that would suggest that this person is a marketing manager, and it's because they haven't, and again, it's not because they don't have the experience. They haven't written a resume that speaks to that experience, right? So maybe they do have it, but so it will de prioritize those resumes and prioritize the resumes that have marketing and social media and graphic design, like the words that we're looking for, it's a zero and one thing, right? Like with algorithm zeros and ones. And so it's actually just looking for keywords. And so it doesn't mean that. It means it means anything, but it's going to scan it for at least a certain amount of percentage of the. Words on the resume match the job is. So that's why it's really savvy to use both AI and your human mind, because like the AI, using the AI to like, optimize for keywords will help you get through the ATS, but then really using your mind, human mind, to ensure that the narrative makes sense and it's coherent and cohesive, right? And it provides the right context for your proud achievements. That's for the 18 seconds that you earn when the someone like Rosie is actually looking at the resume and saying, yes, let's interview this person. Yeah, you can't write the resume for one or the other. You have to write it for both, right? So the ATS also, I always say three people so or three things, right? So the ATS system, the recruiter like me. So I am not a marketing specialist, but my hiring manager is a marketing specialist. So what happens with the hiring manager? He or she gives me a list of here's what I'm looking for, here's the keywords, here's the skill sets, here are the kind of positions I think that they should have held before. I don't want someone who hasn't held these positions. So they give me like a bucket full of words that I'm looking for. I don't actually know what the HR the marketing manager is going to do on a day to day basis, so I'm just going to use whatever information that's been given to me. But I'm not an expert, and I'm going to be the gatekeeper, and you have to read it. I have to read it be able to understand it. So layman's terms, right? So like, somebody who doesn't know has to be able to read it in the same breath. Then I pass it on to the hiring manager. Hey, look at Jamie's resume. Jamie looks like she's got a great set of experience that you would be great. So then then the hiring manager, who is a subject matter expert, who, who knows what he or she is looking for, like they need to then read the resume say, Oh yeah, I really like what Jamie's got going on. I'm interested. Let's call her in, right? So it's not that, it's not that hard. It sounds like I'm not trying to make it complicated. It's actually very simple. And there's very easy tips and tricks that you can do. But you do have to speak to all three, because you have three essential gatekeepers that are keeping you away from interviewing with this company. Got it, and so here's what I'm learning. First of all, Rosie provides an excellent concierge service, so she'll help you optimize your resume, write your application, and even hit submit for you. And number two, like you don't want your resume to be generic. You don't want it to sound like you just copied and pasted something off the chat, GPT or Claude or what, resi or whatever, because people can tell. It's easy, easy to tell. And number three, you want to be able to tell a narrative. Every section, every line, has to be well thought out because, number one, you want to incorporate keywords so that it passes the ATS, yeah. Number two, it's got to be readable by someone who is not familiar with your industry. Layman's terms. That's very important, right? It has to be in layman's terms. So anyone reads it, they're like, oh, yeah, this person, they're probably competent and, you know, reliable and diligent. And then you also needed to be specific enough so that the industry specialist can be like, Yeah, we want this person in for an interview. Okay, it's art and it's science. It is absolutely yeah. So let me ask you something that feels kind of risky right now. We're recording this in early August, 2025 and just last week, we had the jobless claims numbers published in the US, and the numbers were worse than previously reported, and the person who reported these numbers got fired by the US president because we have a US president who, you know what, let's not go there.

Speaker 1  34:07  
The US president is

Jamie Lee  34:12  
not known to be a rational person. So with that in mind, I also have been talking with people you know, some of my clients are getting job offer opportunities from abroad. Oh, like people are getting hired, not in the US. And this is just small anecdotal evidence from my direct experience with my clients. My clients were getting jobs, are getting hired either by, you know, companies that are abroad, or by billionaires, nice, yeah. And it's, I've also talked to people who've sent out like, 150 applications and zero and, like, highly qualified, like, you know, really good professionals just getting, not up, right? Yeah. And so I'm curious, what do you need? Want to sing for you, so I'm not surprised. So I'll tell you really funny story. So I started my newsletter, and I sent it out to a list of people, and somehow I actually got a friend or somebody who had interviewed me in the past, and she actually lives out in the Netherlands, and she's like, Hey, thanks so much for including this. Actually, the mark the job market in the Europe is not as bad as the US, haha. And I say so, I think the listening and looking at what's happening here and laughing at us and, you know, in some ways, so I'm not surprised that people are getting jobs outside of the US. I think it's fantastic. And I think at the end of the day, like getting a job, you know, for these companies, like wherever it may be, if it pays the bills and you're happy and you like it, why not in Europe, Europeans, we know, particularly, they just have a better work life balance structure than we do in the US. So I love that. I think what I've been noticing is, yeah, more and people, more and more people are losing their jobs, or they're feeling job insecurity. They don't know where they're going to be. I've had one client recently. He's just like, I don't I have a job, I have a paycheck. I love this place, but I don't think we're going to survive. I don't think we're going to survive the tariffs. I need to get out. And so he's like, he wants to jump ship before the ship sinks on its own. Yeah, he kind of, I don't know if it will. I don't know enough about the organization, but, you know, it's a choice that he's making for himself and his family. And I, you know, I encourage that, because I think we all have to be true to ourselves. So I think, you know, people are getting scared. And I think, but I think what's happening right now, at least in August of 2025 is, yes, the job numbers are slowing, but there's still ample opportunity. Where are the ample opportunities? From your perspective, I think the big cities are still busy, right? I think like New York City is still busy, Washington, DC is still busy. San Francisco, LA, Chicago, Boston, like, I think those, those those those places are still like, the economy is still booming. We haven't hit a recession like, knock on wood, right? So far, we're still going through so I think there is, I think the remote jobs are getting, you know, less and less every day. So I don't think that the remote opportunities are as as fruitful as they used to be. But I think, and I think it's, you know, depending on the industry, because, like, I think Salesforce has finally lifted their their hiring freeze, and they're now hiring again. And I think a lot of other organizations are following suit. So there are, there's a slow upward trend. I think, you know, I had a friend very early on in the state administration who lost her job because of the doge funding cuts, and one thing she said to me, which I'm really proud of, was a friend and a client of mine who said was like, at least I'm in the first batch of people, right? Because that means that there's not that many of us looking for jobs. I know that I'm going to find something pretty quickly, and it's been taking, you know, it takes most of my clients, on average, four to six months to actually land a role. So they are actually unemployed for that period of time. Yeah, I want to hear they are employed. Yeah. I want to hear some like winning case studies. I want to hear some amazing, winning case studies from you. But as as I was listening to this, I have been also having conversations with my clients who were who just tell me like it is, and they they say, you know, some of my clients work for big companies that they're like, Yeah, AI is replacing jobs, right? We will lose jobs to AI, right, and so, but, you know, the irony of this conversation that we're having right now is like, how do we utilize AI to get jobs, while also, at the same time AI is taking jobs away, or, you know, reducing the number of jobs, at least it seems, you know, in the US right now. So, I mean, what comes to my mind is, yes, AI is not going away, and so we can't keep, like, pushing it away, pretending like it's not here. Yeah, I think that's going to be a dangerous game, like we can learn to adapt with it, or learn to engineer it, and like aI engineers, that's a high demand job. I'm seeing where people, where there are job growth, like therapists, are in big demand. Oh yes, therapist are in big demand. Also, I have clients who work in accounting, Corporate Services, and their jobs are in big demand, like, like, in the blue color, right? Like you AI can't fix your toilet, right? So there's definitely look, I think technology has always disrupted the workforce, and then it settles right, like we've. On through this. I remember, and I was really young, but I remember my my parents and my grandparents freaking out because I used to work at the bank. But like, even you know my father, who did work at the bank, when the bank machine came out, we're going to lose jobs because the bank machine did we Yes, absolutely. I was actually part of a massive program where we not not into the bank machines so much, because that was like, this was like 2013 I think, but online banking and that sort of stuff, we were really focusing on not having as many people in like, as many tellers, especially, but more like banking advisors that could really advise on everything and also withdraw crack cash for you if you needed it. And that was really because of this push that we had this technology that we wanted our clients to stop using those, you know, those old past books where you would, like, print your balance like we wanted to get away from that, and we wanted to get really them using our online banking tools and platform to do their day to day banking stuff. So, yeah, it definitely did. But what happened? What there always is a little bit of a correction, and the correction comes from the people who learn the technology, who know how to adapt to it. Then are we introduced back into like? They need to like. We need to learn AI. We need to understand that we may not be an AI engineer. I have no desire to ever be an AI and an engineer, but you can tell me that I don't know how to use AI. I use AI on a day to day basis, and I am I tell my clients, I need you to take a class. Learn chat, bro, sorry, prompt engineering, right? That's the term. So learn prompt engineering. Learn how to write a good prompt. Learn how to use the various AI tools to code, because one of the things that cloud in particular, we won't need developers anymore, because I actually built a tool using Cloud. I don't have any back background in what was the tool that you built? It's an ATS scanner. I mean, it's not perfect yet, so I'm still refining it. Wow. But I actually have it like maybe 75 80% of the way there will scan your resume and the job description and tell you and give you a score of how much your your resume is weighted towards that job description. And will you pass it? Really cool. Yeah. And I built that just using an AI tool, and so I don't need a developer anymore. I don't need to pay somebody $150,000 to develop this tool. I can do this myself. I mean, it's not easy. It's not difficult by any stretch. But I mean, it took me being stubborn and bullheaded and say, I'm going to get this because I heard this on a podcast where, like, Cloud is fantastic for building tools and so, yeah, but like, again, if you're refusing to accept that this is our new reality, you are going to get left behind. Yeah, and I, I don't know how to I don't know how to say that in any softer way. And it sucks. It really does, because some of us are just exhausted. We're burnt out. I don't want to learn another thing, yeah, and I use AI quite a bit, you know, if I want to write copy, and I still want my copy to read like a human being, I still want my copy to tell human like real stories from my life, from, you know, real case studies. But like, it's not just because English is my second language, writing copy takes time, and I much rather spend more time coaching my clients and improving my coaching skills, right, and helping my clients generate results faster than spending like, three hours writing a five paragraph post, which I have done in the past. And so I just become, like, you know what? It's a tool. I'm going to use it. It makes me more effective. And like, you know, setting up forms, like I it's great. So having said all that before, we wrap up, like, I'd love to hear you. Like, tell us what, are some like, some of your proudest coaching outcomes? Where do I start? So I think

Jamie Lee  44:12  
one of the ones I talk about the most is She's a former colleague of mine turned friend turned client. One of my first few coaching clients was like, you know, I've worked with you, I know exactly what you're about, and I can't wait, and I want to support you. So I was like, I loved it, and I love what she is to me as an individual and another like friend in my life. But she had was, she was, she was in this position, and she hated it, bad boss, outdated practices. Was only making $80,000 a mother of two. She's like, it's not, it's not doing anything for me. And I really want to be a director like I really want to get I want to break that ceiling. And as a woman of color, I watch all of my, you know, my. White counterparts are all getting promoted to VP, and these, like, like, really awesome positions, or it seems like at least titles. I don't know positions, but titles, and I'm still sitting here at a senior manager, and I can't seem to break this break through this glass ceiling. And so we, I had redone her resume. She applied for this position that she was almost like tapped on the shoulder for. So it was almost like a shoe and she was going to get this interview, but she had interviewed a year before for this position and didn't get it. And so the stakes were higher this time, because the manager didn't really like her, but somebody beat her in the interview process. And so she was like, not taking this chance coach me and we went through her insecurities, her fears, framing like, how do you feel inside? Like, are you giving out positive energy and vibes, or are you stuck in this, like, this rut of, like, I don't know if I can do it or it didn't work out last time, so it's not going to work out again. Yeah, yeah. So it's one of those things that we really we spent hours and and another thing was like, you know, the the recruiter had sent her a couple of different wonky emails, and she said, Rosie, how do I respond to this? So it was really nice for her to have a person to bounce back ideas from. And Anyways, long story short, obviously, she's a success story. She went from 80k to $170,000 maybe the director, yes, right? She negotiated all that on her own. She's so happy. She has this massive amount of responsibility, but nothing that she's not prepared for. They love her because she came from an organization that was very wealthy and rich in processes, and now she's bringing all of this knowledge to this smaller organization, and she's getting paid so much more. Wow, and they that's a great success story. She loves it. She's really, really happy, and she's she's happy that she believed in herself and she did take this chance and didn't let herself be held back by that one opportunity where she didn't make it in that interview, cuz she was actually holding on to that story. And I was like, I need you to let it go for 45 minutes. You know, I'm like, Just 45 minutes. You need to fake it till you make it. But it. But like, there wasn't any faking. She had everything in inside of her to get that job. Yes, that's a sign of a great coach. That's a sign of a great coach, like coaches who help bring out what's already inside of you. Yes, yes. So it's not like, Oh, you have to go do a bunch of new things and make so much more effort when you're already burnt out and tired, it's like, no, it's already inside of you. Let's you know, the coach will help you reconnect with that resource that's already inside of you. Beautiful story, where can people go to learn more about you know? So my website spelled incorrectly is yanoya, e, u, N, I O, A, dot, I O, again, that's the spelling for now. And then, when I'm able to fix it, I absolutely will, but, or in my LinkedIn, Rosie saying r, O, S, E, y, last name, saying s, I N, G, H, my LinkedIn, I post all, all sorts of stuff, articles, my newsletter, daily, you know, little things that I think about, conversations I have with clients that, you know, spark something within me that I think is worth of sharing. So even if you're just looking for a little bit of a tip and a trick, it's all there. Excellent, excellent. I will link to her website, her LinkedIn in the show notes, thank you so much for joining us. Rosie, we appreciate you. Thank you for having me.