0:00  
Welcome to risky conversations with Jamie Lee. I'm Jamie Lee, and if you're wondering why risky conversations, that's because everything worthwhile is on the other side of a risky conversation. I'm an executive coach for smart women who hate office politics, and I help them get promoted, get better paid, without throwing anyone under the bus. This six part series comes from my live workshop the promotion playbook for smart women in male dominated industries. You're going to hear the exact tools and frameworks that my clients have used to land promotions, increase their pay and grow their influence, plus real coaching moments and real success stories. In this final installment of the promotion playbook series, we're going to talk about a topic that many and growing number of professionals are facing, but few talk about openly, which is ageism, or the thoughts about ageism and how to navigate career pivots, even when it's later in your career journey. So let's dive in.

1:15  
What would you say about how would you address ageism in the workplace. I know you were talking about self advocacy, but there's a program where I work that is, it's for people who are it's a commercial Leadership Program, and it's a three year program, and after that, you travel all over the world doing things with this. And it's a great program. And I, I've really been wanting to apply for it, but it has a very specific requirement for the amount of years of experience, six to nine. And the only reason that I can go for them to have that requirement is that would pretty much be people who just got out of college and were in their 20s, their late 20s to early 30s. So I feel like that's

1:58  
okay. Well, let me ask you this, how many years of experience do you have?

2:03  
13 just I did, but I haven't had a chance to really, I don't know if I'll get called in for an interview or not, but I just looking at that policy. That's the only reason I could think of why you would have that specific requirement for you. What's going to happen between the sixth and the ninth year of your career. That's going to make you that, you know, that's going to disqualify you on any other part of the range, right?

2:26  
Like, what happens in the 10th year? Yeah, oh no, right? Like, the 9.5 years and you're off a cliff or something, it's kind of the dark side, right? Right? Okay, so you did apply. Okay, what would you like to have happen here?

2:44  
I would love to at least get called in for an interview and not be disqualified on the basis of having, you know, a little bit more experience

2:53  
than they were looking for. I don't know if it is ageism, okay, you could be right, but I don't know, yeah, right. And I love that you already took action on giving yourself a chance at it.

3:09  
There was a deadline, so I had had to jump if I was going to do it.

3:12  
So yeah and yeah, six, I don't know what to say.

3:21  
That's a really weird, specific amount. Mm,

3:25  
hmm. And what I do know is that usually, you know, when people put together these job descriptions or quote, unquote criteria, right? It's usually just like, Oh, that would be nice, right? And then they sort of like, think about, okay, how do we specify what would be nice, right? But then it's so it's just an idea, right?

3:47  
Asked the head to the recruiter. I wasn't able to get an actual meeting with her, but I asked her, when she said that, I replied and you know, could you just answer a couple questions? What are you hard and fast on the six to nine years of experience? Because I have a little bit more. And she said, Yes, we are. And that was pretty much all I got from as an answer for that.

4:07  
Okay, then my suggestion is, just tell them you have nine years of experience

4:15  
that's at the same company. I mean, they do have access to my personnel record.

4:19  
Ah, okay, then maybe don't lie. Not a good way to start, yeah, yeah. You know what my gut says. Maybe they're not your tribe. Yeah, maybe we'll see. And maybe you go and look for, you know, people who are more open minded.

4:41  
I could find them, if I could just get through that program, that would be a great career jump for me. I'm in a I'm in a place in my career where I've worked myself into being like the subject matter expert, and now I can't get out of it. So I felt like it was something big, like a program. Program that just yanked me out of there to do something else, to really get away from it.

5:05  
Well, if you did the program, what would you have that you don't get have?

5:11  
Well, for one thing, I'd have that on my resume, and I would get to experience a whole bunch of a different side of the business that I don't really get to see right now. So they they rotate you through different sites globally, and you work in different plants, and you get to learn how to manage the big stuff. And that's it's still middle management, but it's still a lot more experience than I'm ever going to get where I'm at right now. I'm a very singular focus where I work right now, in that part of the department,

5:44  
and because you got exposed to different areas of the business, what would you have?

5:52  
I'd be more marketable. I'd have more job opportunities. I'd be able to apply for some of the the jobs that ask for, basically, people with business degrees, even though you don't have a business degree. I mean, having that program under your belt would be probably just as good, I think. And there's, you know, more earning opportunities, more travel opportunities, more opportunities to move and live, maybe live overseas.

6:15  
Okay, and so if you had the opportunity to, you know, apply and get other jobs, more opportunities, and you travel opportunities, and even the opportunity to live abroad, right then, what would you have?

6:32  
I'd be happy that make me happy. Okay,

6:35  
I don't know. What are we going for here. Okay, so you want to be happy?

6:39  
Sure, I'd like to enjoy what I do. I don't want to be the only person, the person I don't want to be the person that everybody comes to for everything. Honestly. I mean, being a manager isn't necessarily that. I don't have anybody to delegate these things to right now.

6:54  
Mm, okay, yeah, we know you want to be happy, and you don't feel as happy when people come to you for all the answers, and when you feel like, I want to have somebody I can delegate things to, and I don't have that.

7:09  
I want to go on vacation and not come back to a dumpster fire.

7:12  
Yeah. I think everyone wants that. Everyone wants

7:18  
you're not a love that. Why can't I,

7:20  
yeah, yeah, okay. The reason why I ask these questions is I wanted to better understand, ultimately, what, what did you want to experience in your career, in your life, as a result of having these external circumstances line up? And we often, we all often feel that, you know, if things outside of me were different, then I could have a different internal experience, right, see? But then, yeah, and then, then it becomes an additional thing, right? And then it becomes like a carrot that you're chasing that you never quite get.

8:00  
You know what? I still keep applying for other things, but I just feel like that, that being where I have been for so long is kind of hemming me in, and I don't know maybe you're right, maybe it is time to just change tribes and go to another company, but that's a that's a lot of insecurity and unknowns too.

8:22  
I'm going to say something that might come across a little spicy and maybe even immature, but I'm going to say it anyways. Is it okay? No, sometimes the most sinister ageism we encounter is the one we've internalized. Mm,

8:40  
that's

8:43  
probably true,

8:45  
yeah, like, what if you're not too old? What if you're not too young to take new risks right beyond this particular program,

9:02  
because I know deep in your heart you feel young. You want to be happy,

9:06  
alright, I don't. I don't remember how old I am actually, most of the time. So I forget, yeah, yeah.

9:15  
And I I forget exactly what the I listened to so many things I heard on a podcast that women above 50 is the fastest growing like subset of the labor pool.

9:32  
You believe that, right?

9:35  
And like so that means that women like you is a force in the labor force.

9:44  
Unfortunately, it's an auxiliary force right now and over I work. So if it's, um, aerospace, it's very engineering centered in a lot of, you know, male dominated. I guess there's. There really aren't. I think my company might be better than most. But there really aren't a lot of the women that are working there are all in support roles. Basically, there are very few engineers peppered here and there.

10:08  
Okay, and what role do you have?

10:11  
I'm a support role. I'm a repair administrator.

10:15  
Okay, but you do know that you can go join a program, you can go learn new things. You can add new tools into your toolkit, and, you know, you could have a different kind of career.

10:28  
That's where I'm trying to go. I just finished, actually, I just finished a bachelor's degree in occupational health and safety. So I'm trying to kind of get myself, which is my role doesn't have anything to do with that right now, and kind of pivot to that, and that would also help give me that mobility that I wanted, and the opportunity to see different parts of the business, because safety is everywhere, not just, you know, with this particular engine or that particular engine. So yeah, that was kind of my thought with with the degree program, and I figured that this other program would give me a much needed boost in that direction, but I'm I am working on that otherwise good.

11:09  
I love that you you give yourself multiple options. I think that's fabulous. And I don't have a clear cut answer, like I said, there's no like silver bullet to these things. But I kind of have this vision for you, which is that, like everything that you have done as a support person in this particular company, like all the frustrations and the annoyances that you have patiently dealt with, and all the fires that you put out once you come back from vacation, like it. None of it is going to waste, because in the future, whatever new role that you embark on or you create for yourself, all of this is going to be a pool of wisdom from which you draw on, and people are going to benefit from that,

11:58  
I hope so. Matter of making that happen.

12:02  
Yeah, that's what I have for you. Oh, thank you, and it's Yeah, cool. Thank you for listening to the promotion playbook series here on risky conversations with Jamie Lee. If you found this episode helpful, please leave a five star review on any of the podcasting platforms on which you are listening to this podcast. Past listeners have shared that these free workshops, free podcasts, have helped them get hired, get promoted and get paid more. Your review helps other people, other women find the 100 plus free podcast episodes, and if you come on over to Jamie Lee coach.com that's spelled j, A, M, I, E, L, E, E, C, O, A, C, h.com, you can also access 100 plus free articles I've written on leadership, negotiation confidence for the ambitious professional women, until next time, please keep advocating for yourself, and remember advocating for yourself is not selfish. It is an act of service.