SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello, welcome to Risky Conversations. I'm Jamie Lee and I'm an executive coach for smart women who don't like office politics. And I help them get promoted, get better paid without throwing anyone under the bus. And why risky conversations? Because everything worthwhile is on the other side of a risky conversation. Today, in this special episode, I'm breaking down something that I see with nearly every woman I coach. We've been taught that asking for what we want is risky, greedy, political, ungracious. But you know the truth? The truth is that women are not bad negotiators. We've just been sold a lie about what negotiation actually is. In addition to that, I'm gonna walk you through my own journey and tell you why I did the risky thing of walking away from my six-figure tech career to become a coach that helps women better advocate for what they want in their careers. And I'm showing you the one mindset shift, the single mindset shift that changed everything for me and my clients. We're talking sovereignty, locus of control, and why that metaphorical tiara, as in the external recognition and respect that you've been waiting for, you really have to put it on your own head. Stick around, this one is foundational. And a quick disclaimer: this episode is an excerpt from a training that I did earlier this year in 2026. And if you want to find out about more trainings that I'm doing this year, come on over to jameleecoach.com and get on the newsletter list so you don't miss out. Okay, let's get started. Please stick around. So, exit negotiations. How do you get better paid? So you can be your own boss, and like I said, you can be your own boss and keep getting better paid or get even better paid. And some people they become their own boss and then get really better paid. I'm gonna tell you those stories. I'm gonna tell you those case studies and tell you what what is underneath what is the foundation underneath that that makes it possible. And before we dive into the meat of this training, I'd love to know I know more people are going to watch the replay, but for the people who are here, I'd love to know. Oh, is the is the poll already live? Okay. People have already answered. How did you learn about this training? If you are seeing that, I'd love for you to let me know. Did you learn about this training on my newsletter, on my website, or the Facebook group, Seven Sisters Hiring Sisters, or Smithy's Hiring Sisters? Uh, maybe you learned about it on LinkedIn or Instagram or a friend sent you an invite to this. I'd love for you to know. I I'd love for me to know. Hello, Nicole, fellow Smith alum. Great. Yes, and while we're waiting for people to come into the training, and while people are submitting their response to the poll, if you would also like to share in the chat where you are now. I am usually based in New York City area. I I live right outside Manhattan in Newark, New Jersey, but I'm doing something really fun right now. I'm in Japan and I'm workationing. Yes, yes, two thumbs up, two thumbs up. I'm workationing from Japan and I'll be here for one more month. Brooklyn, New York. Represent. I used to live in Brooklyn, San Antonio, Texas. Yes. Yeah, if you want to share where you're joining from, Palm Springs, California. Hi, Morgan. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Nicole. Nice. Hi. Hi. All right. All right. So if you haven't yet submitted your response to the poll, I'd love for you to do that. But in the meantime, let's get started. Like I said, we will do questions. If you want to type them into the chat, if something comes up and you don't want to forget, do that. We'll get to it at the end. All right. So here's what to expect in this training. Let's get clear on who this is really for. And I will also share my story of how I got better paid, became my own boss, and got even better paid. And I will walk you through my new sovereign three-step framework that works. And I will walk you through real client case studies. And I have podcast interviews that go along with them. So you can know where to find that podcast and listen to them, how to get started. If you'd like uh expert support on your side, so that you can customize this framework for your unique situation and generate results like my clients have. I'll tell you how to get started. Basically, you book a free hour-long consultation with me, and I will end this training with live QA. So if you're wondering, that sounds great. Good for you, Jamie. You you got better paid, you became your own boss, you got great, but how will I know that it'll it'll work for me? Yeah? That's a great question. So this training is for you. If you are somebody who is skilled and you're somebody who really prides in being good at what you do, and you love getting things done, and you're frustrated because you're underappreciated, underpaid at work, and you feel allergic to office politics. You don't want to be a jerk. You've worked with them, you've had to work under them, you had to work around them, and you're like, that's the last thing I ever want to be. Maybe you have also asked for more in your career. You've negotiated, you've asked for a pay raise or promotion, and you encounter pushback. And that was a little bit like, oh, ouch. Yeah. And you're like, wait, what went wrong? How do I do it better? And you want your income and impact to grow without drama. You want a safe exit if you're in a toxic job, you know, a toxic job, or you're, you know, working with an abusive boss. My clients tell me they they have. And at the same time, you're feeling, but I gotta do it in a way that's safe because I have people in my life, whether they're human people or animal people who depend on you, yeah. And you provide for them. And you also know, with all of this going on, you also know that with confidence, you can be unstoppable. That when you put your mind to something, you get it done. If that's you, this is for you. And here is yours truly at a women's conference, working mothers' conference a couple years ago, in a live coaching session. And here's my story. I have in my previous life as an employee negotiated multiple pay raises and promotions as a woman of color manager in tech, when working in tech was kind of cool some years ago. Yeah. But I'm a highly sensitive person. I'm an immigrant. I have a chronic condition. And this chronic condition makes me allergic to stress and the stress of being an outlier in that environment where you know nearly everyone is male, pale, sometimes yale, and often stale. The stress got to me. Yeah, I know it's funny, right? Yeah. And I got really sick and I kept having these recurring infections that was, you know, we're all women here. I was, I was having recurring UTIs. I'm like, what am I doing wrong? And it was only years later that I put the pieces together and realized, oh, this chronic condition I have makes my immune system very, very susceptible to overreacting when I'm in distress. And so I realized I had to take, I had to take action to protect my well-being as well as my vitality, my sanity. And I became my own boss 10 years ago. And since then, I've worked as a self-advocacy trainer, executive coach, and I focus on helping smart women who are underappreciated, frustrated, don't like office politics. And I help them get promoted and better paid, utilizing just really no nonsense practical frameworks, but also marrying practical neuroscience. And as a result, I've helped smart women earn $3 million and counting. And the reason why I add that and counting there is because I think with math, the nuance is important. Clients tell me when they get a raise. Like just yesterday, a client told me she secured a $25,000 pay raise in the first year of her job. And I do take note, but what I also know is that once your base salary, your income grows with a pay increase, pay you know, raise like that, it it grows in a compounded way over the years. And that's why when you read up on salary negotiation, one of the most mind-boggling numbers that you encounter is that the first time you negotiate in your in your career, and if you were to save that incremental income and let that compound with the interest over time, it can grow to $500,000. Yeah. So that's why I add that $3 million plus, because once you earn more, the earning compounds over the years. So here's a fascinating fact. Did you know that just last year in 2025, 455,000 women left the workplace? And yes, you know, the tech tech layoffs, the the restructuring, yes, they they do play a part in that, but so does the continuing gender pay gap, you know, the the fact that women tend to almost always carry more of the caring, caregiving burdens in the family and harassment. I mean, there's so many factors that go into this. And that's about half a million women who left the workplace just last year. And of those nearly half a million women, 264,000 women walked of their walked out of their own volition. They left voluntarily. Yeah. And you know, you might think, whoa, that sounds bad. And in fact, according to leanin.org and McKinsey, it is true that more women than men, right, because of the factors that I just mentioned, caregiving duties, gender pay gap, the fact that women leaders do get more negative and subjective feedback on their personalities and communication than men. 75% of women leaders get negative feedback on their personalities and communication, whereas men get a lot less than that, right? So all of that does factor into the fact that women are leaving. But, but I mean, look at the second line here. Women-owned businesses are growing faster. Women-owned businesses are growing revenue 56.8% versus 50% for men-owned firms. And of business owners, women own roughly 21 to 23% of all employer firms. So employer firms means that they are the boss and they have employees. And women of color are the fastest growing demographic among business owners. And you could say, yes, it's it, it there is a there's a truth to the fact that women may be being pushed out, but at the same time, women, some women, actually more than half of the women, are exiting on their own terms and they're growing businesses that are growing faster than men-owned firms. So, what does this mean? It means that exiting the workplace is not a capitulation, and I believe it is um, excuse me, it is a reclamation of sovereignty, and sovereignty can be defined in many different ways, but in this context, sovereignty means fully owning your gifts for learning fast, getting things done, and using good judgment. And here's a photo of me with the Women Peace Builders, the global network of women peace builders. They're they're a NGO, non-government organization that works with the UN. And I led an advocacy training with these women leaders around the globe in Africa, Europe, Asia. And and ultimately, when women own our sovereignty, when we fully own our gifts for learning fast, getting things done, and using good judgment, I believe what happens is there is more good in the world. The global network of women peace builders, what they do is they help women in areas where there is active conflict, where there is battles, war, and and empower them because women are the peace builders. So that's just a quick side, but I think when people leave toxic workplaces, not a capitulation, it's reclamation. And is it true that women don't make good negotiators? I mean, we do have the gender pay gap, right? And this photo is just a stock photo that I got online from Women in Tech Chat. And, you know, here's a woman who looks like she's in the middle of her career and she started her day negotiating breakfast time and children drop off with her husband, and she got to the workplace, and then she was negotiating her project assignments, and she was negotiating with her colleagues and upper management and her direct reports. I'm like, this lady, she looks like a boss to me. Yeah. And guess what? She's been negotiating all her day, all her life. I do not believe that women don't make good negotiators because we have biases and we have structural issues in this world that penalize women for being self-advocates and claiming their value. I mean, I'm talking about the instances of documented gender blowback in the workplace, right? Which contributes to the gender pay gap. But just because there is systemic issues that create these end results doesn't mean that women don't have the core skills to be great negotiators. And in fact, we do it every day. Can we give ourselves some credit for that? Yeah. And I believe there are three core skills that are transferable. Whether you're negotiating school drop-off, whether you're negotiating a multi-million dollar deal for your employer, whether you're negotiating your exit, whether you're negotiating as a business owner, there are three core skills that can undergirth and strengthen your negotiation outcomes. So here they are. The first one is network sovereignty. I wanted to weave the word sovereignty in there. So it's about, it's about designing negotiation sequence. And why is it a sequence? Because it's always a process. It's never a once and done conversation. It's a whole process, it's a number of conversations. Yeah. And you lead with empathy. There's a great book called Never Split the Difference by Chris Foss, an FBI hostage negotiation trainer. So he would train the hostage negotiators of the FBI. And he calls it tactical empathy. So here is a dude, I mean, he came across as the most macho of the macho guys, and he says that the most crucial skill of a high stakes negotiation is empathy. He put the word tactical on it so you know it can it can pass the muster for masculine guys. Yeah. But empathy. Yeah. What if women are great at these? What if women are great at turning people that they know into partners, clients, and champions? Because they're always thinking about what does this person need? What are their preferences? What, you know, and using that as a way to inform the process in a way that feels like pacing and leading, the second point. This is huge. And pacing and leading, the reason why you see a horse there is because what's the saying? You can't, I guess you can force a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink, right? Something like that. Yeah. But how do you get a horse to move? You don't shove it, you don't whip it, you don't run ahead of it, right? You have to pace the horse. You have to meet it where it is, and then gently lead it to the water. What does this mean tactically? It means building rapport to guide your negotiation counterparts, whether they are partners, your clients, your champions, towards shared goals. What are we here to achieve? What do you really want? What do we really want? Right? And it's not about making demands. It's not about pounding the table. It's not about being the most aggressive hardball game player in the world. It's not about being the, I don't want to make this political, but it's not about doing it in the way that you see it in the political headlines, and you're like, oh, so it doesn't have to be this way. No, it doesn't. And the more you lean away from that approach, the better your outcomes. Because again, we're leading with empathy and we're turning people that we know who are in our networks now into our partners, clients, and champions. And another thing that is a huge business negotiation skill is navigating uncertainty, navigating ambiguity with active curiosity. If there is something that is unknown, the willingness to ask open and brave questions, the willingness to do some research, the willingness to ask yourself, what is it about this deal that we don't yet know? And what could be the implication and the impact of that, right? To uncover untapped revenue and hidden leverage. Because if you're in a negotiation, you're in a problem-solving conversation where there will always be an element of unknown, right? Will we work together? What's the what's the right price range, right? There's always going to be an element of unknown. And so if there are elements of unknown, it doesn't mean that something has gone wrong, or it's the reason to be like, oh my God, worry and get anxious. It's like, hmm, let's get curious and let's ask questions. That is at the core of negotiation prowess. And I think women can be great at these. So here's what I want you to take with you from this episode. Negotiation is not about being louder or pounding the table or being manipulative or more aggressive. Ultimately, it's about understanding that you are in control of your career. Yes, even if you feel you need the paycheck and the health insurance, ultimately you decide that you need the paycheck and the health insurance. You are in control of your career. It's not your boss, it's not your company, it's not the economy, it's you. And that realization when you bring that locus of control inside, when you internalize that, that's where everything shifts. And if this resonated with you and you're ready to be supported and you're ready to move from hoping someone notices your value to knowing it yourself inside out and being able to confidently advocate for what you want, you're invited to book a free one-on-one consultation for executive coaching. The link to book that free hour-long consultation with me is in the show notes. And in the consultation, we'll map out what's possible for your unique situation and how you can create tangible results. Thanks for tuning in, and remember the most worthwhile conversations are the ones that scare us a little, but help you grow. You've got this.