SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hello, I'm Jamie Lee. I'm an executive coach for smart women who don't like office politics. And I help them get promoted and better paid without throwing anyone under the bus. How? By blending proven communication strategies with brain-shifting neuroscience techniques. In this podcast, we explore the stories and strategies of gutsy women who've braved speaking up and navigated their careers forward. We're here to de-risk the conversations that feel the most daunting, advocating for yourself and your growth. Let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of Risky Conversations with Jamie Lee. I'm Jamie Lee. And why risky conversations? Because everything that's worthwhile is on the other side of a risky conversation. And today we have a special guest from all the way in Japan, where I got to spend an amazing three months workationing recently. And I have to be completely honest, I already miss it. I already miss you know the Japan experience so much. It was such a wonderful experience. And my special guest in Japan today, her name is Ai Atakura. Ai, so good to have you here. And I is an alumni program manager for the Tomodachi Initiative at the US-Japan Council, leading strategic engagement for a network of more than 10,000 alumni across the US and Japan. Originally from Fukuoka, Japan, she moved to the US after high school and she earned a bachelor's degree in hospitality and tourism management from the University of Wisconsin Stout. I brings over 15 years of cross-cultural experience, including client relationship management with IHG Hotels and Resorts and Hilton Hotels and translation and communications for a Japanese automotive company. She has mentored for the Tomodachi Med Life Women's Leadership Program. She has served as a curriculum advisor for University of Wisconsin Stout and is an active member in several Fukuoka-based professional organizations. And in fact, when I was in Fukuoka in May and June, I met I in person at the expats meetup. And it was a really wonderful cross-cultural exchange of people who are based in Japan, from Japan, like I, as well as expats from all over the world, people who were, you know, loving their Japan experience and wanted to deepen their knowledge and connection with Japan. And when I introduced herself at this event in Fukuoka, I immediately thought I have to interview I on Risky Conversations. He's got such an interesting role, such an interesting story. And as a bicultural person myself, I'm Korean American. I was born in Korea and now I live in America. Like I could relate to so many of the things that you work on, as well as you know, your own lived experience. So I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with you. Thank you, I, for being here.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Well, thank you so much, Jamie, for having me. I'm very honored uh to be on a podcast. I felt like I'm a very famous person. And like Jamie said, it was, I think it was a very meant to be, you know, I love this random connections that I make, going to different meetings and events and networking. You know, the meetup is not something that I'm always there, but the day you were there was when I was there. And then we exchange introductions, and here we are. So I'm very fortunate and an honor to be here. And I'm very excited to uh share my journey with you and then your audience because I bring in pretty unusual, I guess, life and career path.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

So I'm very excited to uh talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Yes. And to give people, to give the listeners a bit of context, when we were in Fukuoka, when we met in person in Fukuoka, the venue that hosted this expats meetup, which was all was all in English, it's like this little gem, this place because it's in the city center of Fukuoka. Fukuoka is one of the major cities in Japan, and it's it's like a little slice of New York City. You know, it's got the New York City vibe, it's got the New York City art and the kitsch, and it's got the New York City elements of like coming across all these different cultures and people from all sorts of walks of life, and we're just like hang out and we you know connect with each other peer to peer. And that was a really special night. So again, I'm really glad that we did meet at that networking event.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

And uh and you know, let's let's start from you know where you where you work right now. What okay is Tomodachi Initiative by the US Japan Council? It sounds very formal, right? Very specific. And what is Tomodachi Initiative? In Japanese, Tomodachi means friend, but the initiative stands for something specific. And I'm I'm curious what your role is in the Tomodachi Initiative.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Thank you. So uh just the name says the the organization is called US Japan Council. So obviously, we are US and Japan, and then we strive to connect uh strengthen the connections um between those two countries with cross-generational and then across industries. So the uh organization is a nonprofit organization, and it was started by Japanese Americans originally to educate and give them the roots on going back to their, you know, where they came from, their ancestors came from.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

So for the Nikkei, for the Japanese American. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Yes. So it was founded by Senator Daniel Inoue, who is from Hawaii, and then his wife, Irene Hirano Inoue. Also, obviously, you can tell from the last name, there are Japanese Americans who have immigrated to uh US. But actually, Daniel Inoue, his family is from Fukuoka, so I have a very close personal connection with the founder and Daniel Inoue. And then I'm very proud that Fukuoka is his uh you know, roots and then where his family is. But when we had the Great East Japan earthquake back in 2011, it's been 15 years ago now, you know, when the disaster happened, the US military came to um help us with the humanitarian uh support to support our recovery effort. And they called the uh operation as Operation Tomudachi. And then that's where the Tomodachi initiative came from. So the Tomodachi Operation Tomudachi uh lasted only three months, but US and Japan wanted to keep going with the on the relationship. So they came to us, to US Japan Council, to see you know what we can do to keep going with this relationship. And what the the affected area actually needed was in the midst of recovery of the mass, adults were just so focused on just doing that day-to-day life, you know, putting food on the table and then, you know, looking for a shelter for their family to protect so that they can survive. So the children and the young kids, they weren't given any special attention that they should have been receiving if we were not for the disaster. So that was the area that they thought that we could help. So that's why we decided to start an initiative called Tamurachi Initiative, and we started providing leadership program opportunities, scholarship opportunities, so those uh kids can go to US and then start seeing hope, and then start looking at different things. And when those kids come back to Japan, you know, they're just facial expressions, their eyes were wide open. You know, before they were very devastated, they felt like, you know, everything was taken away in their hometown, but everything changed after spending a few weeks in the US. And they wanted to be the one who wanted to make changes. If they weren't anything available, if they everything was wiped away, you know, they felt like, you know, okay, let's just start building, let's start doing something. And that was the mentality that they had, just you know, going over to the states and then being exposed to hope. Uh, so that's where we thought, you know, yeah, we really need to keep doing this. Uh, so that's what we have been doing this past 15 years, and now we not only focused in those um disaster area, but throughout the entire Japan and then the US. So we've been doing that exchange for the last 15 years. But where I come in is, you know, the last 15 years, we have done over 350 programs. So now we have over 10,000 program participants who became an alumni. And then we don't want to be just uh uh one-off. So we created the community called Tomodachi Generation. And actually, the Tomodachi Generation, the term came from Hillary Crinton when she attended our annual conference, and then we're very proud to use the term now, but I planned different events and engagement opportunities so those alumni can stay engaged and continue to find uh paths for their growth and the way to give back to the community or you know, pay forward. So different ways to, you know, improve themselves. And then I feel very lucky to have the position and the job that I have because it's such a rewarding job. You know, like I said, you know, those kids, they just have such a flexible mentality, and then the things that they're looking at through their eyes are completely different from you know grown-up eyes, you know, as you know, we take things for granted, you know, sound will always come up, or you know, you know, stuff like that. But for them, you know, every little thing is uh learning and then fresh for them. So I learn a lot from them actually, and I see them spark, I see them thrive, and now all the uh participants are around the same age as my own son. So I feel like every year I gain over a hundred kids of my own, and I've been a mom to those uh kids, and you know, I get to mommy them, so that's another reward point, and I just love it, it's such a rewarding position.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Sounds like very meaningful, allowing those young people. Yes, very much so. Yeah, a new perspective broadening experience. And I studied abroad in Japan when I was 19 years old as a college student, and I remember just being you know bright-eyed and like, whoa, and having studied the language, having studied Japanese in college and getting to really speak Japanese with the local people. It felt magical for me. So, of course, I I'm not here to you know compare my study abroad with you know people who actually live through the great earthquake, but like, you know, just how how how mind-opening, how world-changing that experience can be to you know, to be immersed in a different culture and and make human connection. And it kind of gives me chills to think about it, but also you know, when people see the positive aspects of America, you know, like America's we're known for that can-do spirit, you know, the optimism, that that that you know sense of individualism, but also I can do something to change my reality, to change my world, right? So that's so cool. So in addition to Tomodachi Initiative, you're involved in many organizations and volunteer groups outside your work. And I do. And in fact, there are many different groups within the US-Japan council, like uh that are associated, right? And I'm curious what it means for you personally to be part of these different communities.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Yeah, so I think you used the um the keyword just now, the people to people connection. And that's exactly what I love, and then that's exactly why I work for this organization, because that's another um keyword for the um the organization yourself. But throughout my life, and then even currently and ongoing, you know, just the people connection, the human connection is the treasure, and that's what gives you the power. So the power of networking is I cannot stress enough. You know, when I mentor these young, you know, next generations, or when they come to meet for any advice, you know, that is something that I always say, you know, you gotta get out, talk to people, widen your network, because that will be the treasure for you. And you never know, you know, the people you meet at different outing, even maybe just, you know, standing in line in the grocery store. You know, those people might come around and you might be working for them, or you know, there might be a mentor for you. And, you know, that's how exactly I met Jamie. So, you know, you just have to uh use the power of networking. And that's why I I belong to different organizations, because I at the same time I want to give back to community, but I'm actually gaining from belonging to those um organizations, and that's what I feel like. You know, I see, you know, older people, young people from different backgrounds, different work experience, different family setting. Everybody has something that will teach you or learn or you know, something to talk about. And it's never boring. And I get so fascinated by talking to new people or even people that I know, you know, I might find something new. So that's why I belong to different organizations. And one of the um the main organizations that I belong to here in Fukuoka is the Japan American Society. And of course, because of my time with uh US, as soon as I came back to uh Fukuoka, that was the first organization that I belonged to, and that led to the opportunity of mentoring the female uh students through the program that US Japan Council offered at that time. And because I did the mentor, um I worked for them, and then I get to uh manage the alumni. So it's all connected, you know. Um I didn't think about working for this organization. I didn't know that they had such programs, but I because I was a member of the Japan America Society, and then it was you know something that came through through the association, I got the notification, and here I am. So things like that happen all the time, you know, small or big. So that's why I enjoy being with different organizations and meeting with new people.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

So you were a member of the, so you're a mentor, you're like a volunteer mentor in a young women's program. And then through that program, you learned about this opportunity to be a program manager, yeah, your full-time job. And also I wanna I wanna highlight something that may not be obvious, especially if if you know the listener is in the western hemisphere. Like we take it for granted that you're speaking English, fluent English, you know. I mean, and I'm I'm not trying to like flatter or anything, but you you really are exceptional in that you know, not a lot of Japanese people speak fluent English, American English too. Right? Yeah, a lot of comfort. And this reminds me when we were in Japan, every once in a while, my my life partner, you know, his he he he looks like a you know, the conventional American person, you know, with hazel eyes, and so with this bare skin. And so people would randomly walk up to him and start trying to practice their their little bit of English. You could tell, like, you know, it took a lot of courage, and this is like something really exciting because yeah, they're talking to a foreigner, right? So I just want to say when you're involved in these communities, it's not just with your Japanese community. You're you're engaged with the international community, you're engaged with the XP community, you're also engaged with Japanese Americans, you're you're engaged with you know just Americans or Korean Americans or whatever Americans, like right? Yeah, you you're you have a very wide reach in your network, right? Uh-huh. And and and yes, the power of networking is is really incredible. Like one of my clients, she she called it a portal. Like when you network, you're stepping into a portal of opportunities and new possibilities. You know, we we met at a a little New York themed burger joint in Fukuoka, but once early in my career, I went to an acupuncturist from nick pain from work, you know, the stress of working in a in a workplace, finance, and the acupuncturist referred me to her husband. Oh CFO at a tech company, and then the CFO, her husband, ended up hiring me. So oh wow, see, there you go. Right. We wouldn't call that I wouldn't think that was networking, but you know, it's just we're just meeting people and connecting with them as a person, as a human, and just and and it opened up this portal of a of a totally new career for me. So I I want to ask you the question that I ask everyone. Yeah, come on, risky conversations, right? So tell us about the riskiest conversation you had to engage in yourself in your bicultural career, right? You you went to college in the US, you worked in the US, and then you're now working in in Japan, but for the US Japan Council. And I'm curious why that particular conversation was risky and why it was worth taking the risk.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Yeah, I'd be glad to. Um I guess for my case, it might not be a risky conversation, but risky opportunity, maybe. So I talked about, you know, I've done mentoring for young females. students. So part of the program we always came together because we had 10 payers in Fukoka region, 10 pairs in Tokyo area, 10 pairs in Hokkaido, Osaka.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

And each pair is a mentor. So we had each pair is a mentor.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, professional and student, we always pair up and then, you know, we walk along for nine months. That was the program. But we were spread out throughout Japan in five different regions. But at the end of the program, we always came together or kind of like a summit so that, you know, all of us can come together, you know, share the learning, the the female students will do presentation, you know, things like that. But one year it was when COVID happens. So obviously, you know, in-person conference wasn't possible or traveling wasn't possible. So the the program manager at that time had to come up with something so we could still come together and then conclude the program. So what they had come up with was to select a mentor from each region and then they did kind of like this, you know, like a one-on-one talk so that you know the selected mentor from the region could share their background, their work-life balance, you know, whatever it might be that they had really focused on during their mentorship program. And then I was actually reached out reached out to represent my region. And then like I said there were nine other mentors in the same program. And in the group there were you know much more executive or much more senior level professionals that were in the group. And I was working for a hotel back then. And then there was actually another lady who was in hotel business, but she was area general manager. So obviously she was in much higher position. So when I was given the opportunity I felt like you know there are other female mentors who might be more appropriate to represent the Goka region. So I had to you know debate myself you know maybe I should turn it down and give the opportunity to other people who is more appropriate. But then second thought if I do that all the messages that I have been given to my mentees you know it's going to turn back around and you know I'm not executing or practicing what I am telling the next generation. And you know being mentor being a leader it doesn't come with your title or status on the social community. Just because you are an executive it doesn't mean you're a leader. And then that is the message that I should give and I think there is a reason that they chose me and they uh reach out to me. So I should take this opportunity even though I didn't feel comfortable at first. So I thought it was a risky opportunity that I should take so that I can you know practice you know what I have been preaching to my mentees. So that's what I did and in one of the messages was you know exactly what I was said and you know the title doesn't mean leadership your mom your stay home mom is also a leader she volunteered to help with the uh the soccer match or you know serve for PTO you know those are considered as leadership you know element but many female especially in Japan don't realize that and you know they don't feel I think it's everywhere I think it's not just Japan.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

It's it happens in the states it happens in the West Europe it happens in Africa like people thinking oh if my job title isn't fancy enough maybe that doesn't mean I'm a leader and then we overlook just as you said just because you're an executive doesn't mean you're a leader. What is the impact? How are you you know influencing people around you how are you you know helping to organize and inspire people just like you know the mom who organizes the soccer match or you know volunteers yeah that's so good.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

So what I'm hearing is that the risk was not in you show the risk isn't you attending the event the risk was you opting out because you know you you know worried too much that your title meant something you know which doesn't right right so it's a different kind of risk the risk was actually giving into this voice of self-doubt yeah yeah and then I think it was a good uh reflection too yeah you know to realize that myself great so you move through hospitality translation work and now the US Japan Council yes and I'm curious again kind of on this theme of risky moves like which of these transitions scared you the most what had to be said about why it mattered yeah so again this transitions all happened thanks to the networking so I have always done hospitality because that's what I studied but during my hospitality career I also belonged to Japanese community in Kentucky where I was living back then to cultivate you know Japanese market uh so that was part of my task but you know the the initial motive was for my business but the more that I got involved with the Japanese community you know I got to know them I started to understand before that you know I already spoke the language I was already living in the states for over 10 years so I didn't have any problem you know living in the States and then it didn't have to associate with Japanese community in order to you know to to have a decent life in the states so again the initial motive was purely for my business but then I started to appreciate I guess keeping the identity as a Japanese and carrying on the traditions even while I was in the states. So what I started to do in was you know providing traditional festivals and holiday opportunities throughout the community so that they feel you know more comfortable while they were you know away from their own country and then still enjoy both aspects. So I started planning those kind of events I started doing newsletter for them introducing how to make some Japanese dishes utilizing the ingredients that you can get in the grocery store in the States so those I love that that's so useful doing yeah yeah and you know it also gave me an opportunity to you know dig deeper in Japanese culture that's when I started taking kimono classes so that I can wear kimono to those different events in the states and uh I took some tea ceremony for my aunt uh so that I can understand culture and then you know have that introduced to the community uh so that was a good you know reconnect to my own roots and then it's kind of funny that I said that because I am Japanese so but being away from my own country and then looking at my own country from outside gave me the opportunity to do that. So I'm very you know glad that I did that. But through belonging to the community because in Kentucky we have a very strong in uh Japanese automotive industry uh presence so many of the members are from those companies and I got to know one of the um the executive members from the companies and he reached out to me he was looking for a translator for his company and you're interested and it was completely different feel it wasn't something that I have done I've never done professionally even though I spoke you know English but translation uses a different part of brain so it you know it doesn't mean that you can translate but again I thought it was a great opportunity and I was really flattered and humbled that you know the president reached out to me in thinking you know I will be a good candidate not having the background so I thought it was the opportunity that I should take and then I guess it it probably was a risky opportunity that I took from going from a service industry to manufacturing business and being an interpreter was something different because in the hotel business I was a salesperson. So I was always have to be up front and then talk to people but now as an interpreter I am talking for them. So the funny joke was when I start doing the interpreter I couldn't completely get rid of my sales mentality so I I got carried away and I start talking myself and then I was stuff like you're supposed to be translating this person says you don't carry your own conversation so I had to remind myself in the beginning to become a good interpreter but that was another story. But yeah so that was the transition that I made completely different in tangible to tangible. And that gave me another good experience and insight because it was a Japanese own company and then never worked for a Japanese company. So I got to learn you know different business styles different mannerism in Japanese business setting. So it gave me a really good opportunity and then I also got to you know learn the technology industry and then I got to learn different terms. So it you know gave me an opportunity to grow and then have a different side of a skill set and then you know enrich my assets. And did that influence your decision to return to Japan and then the return to Japan was when my son was getting ready to go to middle school what was the question oh I was curious if your pivot into into this interpreter translator role influenced if if it led to your decision to return to Japan or maybe it didn't no so the the decision to return was because my son's education uh I want him to go to the middle school and high school in Japan to learn Japanese language.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Yeah yeah so that your son's experience is probably more close to mine because well in in reverse direction because I was my parents immigrated and took the entire family and brought to brought us to America when I was about almost seven years old and they wanted us to learn English and you know be exposed to new opportunities and you wanted your son to learn Japanese as opposed to that set of new opportunities that open up when you yeah that's correct. Yeah I also had early in my career an experience where I worked for a South Korean company and that was because I speak Korean and English and it was a really hard experience. It was one of the hardest experiences I have to say first of all I was really young I was fresh out of college and because I spent more time in America from when I was seven all the way through college like I I feel very American and I think more like an American than a South Korean person would. And so that culture shock for lack of a better word you know when you when you're immersed in a South Korean organization with a South Korean mentality and the South Korean way of doing things was it was really tough because I'm still living in America but because you know I was born in South Korea like there's a completely different set of norms and expectations especially depending on your gender right and I really struggle relate. Yeah you can relate and I really struggle with that and I'm like you know what I don't think I'm gonna enjoy working for another Asian company I think and then eventually I'm like I'm just gonna go work for myself yeah but but but earlier when you said that you were you know you were basically becoming a kind of community leader leader for the Japanese expats in Kentucky you yeah that was for the hotel business or for your personal business like your own hotel business for the hotel business for the IHG the Hilton hotels. Yeah but I mean that really boggles my mind because I got to stay in an IHG hotel in Nagasaki earlier this year. And it's just like the level of hospitality is just beyond the roof you know the the level of care and uh the you know the in Japanese they have this phrase called omoten right you know like how hospitable like it has to come like from this sincere right like yeah total integrity like and and yeah that's that's I I'd imagine that in Kentucky that experience for the Japanese community was very comforting but I also imagine that you know the this the special care you brought to the Japanese community was I'm sure it was like you know chef's kiss like really really great. So I'm curious you've deliberately built bridges across communities right like when you I tried to build bridges between Japanese people and America and American groceries and American customs and now you're in Japan and you're still bridging you know the gap between the US Japan so when did you realize being between these two cultures was actually a superpower because you know a lot of people when when you when they find themselves by culture they they feel split or unsettled or there's even this feeling of like like where do I you know where do I belong right but I'm curious when did you realize that this is actually a superpower and did you have to convince anyone else about that yeah I think so I think there are uh many moments that you know I felt like I've been uh I don't know liaison is the right word but you know connecting or building bridge um between those two countries and you know that's because my initial desire and wants to study in the states and you know and still having the Japanese identity but I think when I realize what my identity is well I guess I always thought I was a liaison but when it clicked it wasn't not until actually recently uh and I said that because I wasn't sure about my identity um because I spent almost equal amount in those two countries and you know you were saying even though you are South Korean you act like American uh you now like you're more American yeah right yeah technically legally I'm more American and I feel that way yeah yeah uh yeah so I am almost like that too but you know somebody gave me a term shinisei so I'm not born in the states but I spent enough time in the states as a Japanese a person so they came up with the term shinisei something that will start those bicultural generations and and I don't know just because I was given the and the term it just felt like it really made sense and then just having that comfort that I do have something to identify myself having the term was a really comfortable feeling for me and and it sounds very you know a niche or you know cheesy but I just felt like I finally belonged to somewhere when I was told that and then you know she said you or she necessarily you are one of us you know she had the same experience.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

So I think having the and the comfortable feeling of you know who you are and then you know what your identity is that gives you more power to build bridges in those two countries. So it's not so much a silo but it's a joint and then you know a genuine connection between those two countries. And that's why I do like you know helping you know countries through different associations and then from the work that I do and you know even if they are two different countries you know when it comes down to is you know we are humans we are people so I'm gonna talk about people to people connections again but that is the power and you know it doesn't matter if you're talking to a Japanese person or American person or Japanese American you know what connects people is just the genuine heart you know that you want to connect so as soon as you can show that I think it connects and then gives the the energy to the other side of the you know people that you're talking to.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Yeah so I think that is the power the special power you remind me I think it was in the 90s when I was growing up in New Jersey learned the phrase Korean American and I realized oh yeah there's a distinction between the Koreans you know that my parents are they're really Koreans yeah Korean American because I grew up here and I remember that that you know when you name things When you give name to a very specific experience, it like coalesces that power. So, yeah, like when somebody said, 'Oh, you're a Shin Ise and you're one of us,' you're like, 'Oh, I have a community, I'm not alone.' Yes, yeah, that's that's a really powerful thing. Amazing. My one of my clients and I are doing a workshop, and because what you're talking about is so true, like when you just make a human-to-human connection with people, right? There's so many opportunities and new realizations, new possibilities that open up. And we we sort of been taught to think about networking as like, oh, I'm trying to get something out of you, or you know, in America, we have that that concept of like networking is kind of like pushy.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

And so we're we're cheekily, kind of sarcastically calling this event, this workshop, anti-networking. Because just as you said, when you really make that human-to-human connection, I'm just genuinely curious. I just want to learn about you, and we get to hear each other out, right? It's not pushy, it's not awkward, it's not transactional, but like so, so much potential can be can be unleashed. You know, you've you've switched careers, you've successfully navigated different transitions, and as have my client Sarah Neil, who's also been on this podcast. So I'm really glad that you brought up the topic of networking, and that I just want to say, like, yes, networking, but focusing on the connection, right? Focusing, getting to learn about people and their different cultural experiences in the background, you know, like this conversation has been so rich for me because you know, I'm Asian American, but I also love you know Japan. And it's really cool to see people who are working to make that Japan-US connection even more robust, even more meaningful for everyone involved.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

So yeah, I think being curious or having an interest in you is the difference from you know, people who are trying to sell you something and then just get close to you.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Exactly. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Because I'm just genuinely curious about what you do or you know where you come from, you know. So, yes, curiosity is very important.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Yes. Well, thank you so much for making yourself available. So early in your day, I know it's my evening, your morning. Is there anything else that I didn't ask that you wish you got to share, or any wisdom that you want to share with particularly, you know, other women of color or you know, bicultural women? Is there anything else that you you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Yeah. As a person who has spent time in both countries as a minor, as a female, you know, you know, I mean as a digitalized leader. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, I came out okay. So I can believe everybody can do it. And that, you know, goes back to everybody can be a leader, everybody can have your own style of leadership. So I want to tell everybody, including male, female, you know, anybody that, you know, have curiosity, go out there to talk to people and you know, enrich your network, and then, you know, by talking to them, just enrich yourself, fill up your knowledge and heart by talking to and then interacting with those people. And that is the key. And, you know, with nowadays in the world, you know, some people may feel awkward going out there and talking to people, but I don't want you to be discouraged with that because there are still good people out there, and you know, you there is hope. There's a hope in the world.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Yes, so that is hope in the world. Amazing. That's a great message to end on. Well, I thank you so much for making yourself available all the way from I look forward to seeing you again.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

Yes, yes, yeah. All right, so thank you so much, Jamie.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

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