SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello, I'm Jamie Lee. I'm an executive coach for smart women who don't like office politics. And I help them get promoted, get better paid without throwing anyone under the bus. How? By blending proven communication strategies with brain-shifting neuroscience techniques. In this podcast, we explore the stories and strategies of Gutsy women and allies who've braved speaking up and navigated their careers forward. We're here to de-risk the conversations that feel the most daunting. Advocating for yourself and your growth. Let's dive in. Welcome to Risky Conversations. And why risky conversations? Because everything worthwhile is on the other side of a risky conversation. I am so excited to have today's very special guest, one of my longest, you know, like how do I say this? You're you're my oldest friend that I'm gonna have on this podcast for sure. Because we 26 years. We did we say what? 26 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

26, 27, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

We met when I was a senior in high school at Leonia High School in New Jersey. And let me let me introduce Jeff. Jeff, Jeff Vicente is the co-founder and director of operations of Iron Feather, a unique hair salon, slash art gallery, slash event space concept located in Soho, New York City. He doesn't cut or color hair, instead, he builds the systems, partnerships, events, culture that make his creative business thrive. And his background spans Fashion Week productions in both New York, Paris, luxury salon operations, brand development, and cultural programming. And we should all know he's also a lifelong Madonna devotee.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Very important, the most important part of the resume. Absolutely. She's the muse.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

She's the muse. She's the muse, and she is she's hot again. I mean, she she's like very active.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

It's a good time to be a Madonna fan for sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Like age is just not a number for her, it's not a limitation for her at all.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

And I love that because you and I are both getting older. We met we were teeny little kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, I was 14, 15. Yeah, I was a freshman in high school. We were a few years apart. And what did we meet? We met during a fire drill during chorus rehearsal one morning. And I remember the alarm went off. We all got online outside of science. One of my first classes, it was very early on in the school year, and we were on the line together and struck up a conversation. I think that I think I was sporting some sort of manicure at the time.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Well, show us what you have now, because this is the way elevated version.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

This is the super elevated version. So this is called Daylight to Midnight, is sort of the theme. I have an amazing friend and Russian nail technician named Anastasia with two eyes. I've definitely helped her rebrand a little bit. But when we met, I remember I had the black nail polish on with like little silver dots representing the planets and a little glitter overlay. It was, you know, it was 14-year-old Jeff playing with playing with nail polish. And it was fun. So, but through the years, I've definitely developed a sort of I've become kind of known in Soho as the guy with the nails. There's always some sort of arc project on my on my manicure. So that's fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Like some things have never changed. You've changed so much. And the nail policy, I remember I've never seen a boy, any boy. Okay, I'd never met a gay person until I met you.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yep. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

And then You're welcome. And I remember seeing the the silvery, the glittery nail polish. I'm like, this is different. This is fun. And I I and I woke up and I started just talking to you because I thought you were just new and different to me. I'm like, this is an interesting person. And then it turned out we had way more in common than I could have been.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yes, we did. Yes. We had a person in common, in common, but it's a that's a riskier conversation. We'll save for the uh for the Patreon.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Okay, it's not that it's it's not it's not like you know it's not as salacious. It turned out that my younger sister had dated you. It's so funny because I didn't know. And I mean, clearly you were gay.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Back when back when I was quote unquote bisexual, as most kids, as most of us did in the late 90s, early 2000s. We were just a stepping stone away. And yeah, your younger sister was a stepping stone for me. God bless her.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

We're still in touch.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Love her, love Jenny.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yes, love Jenny. So now you're, you know, you've grown up and you've co-founded, and you're the director of operations for Iron Feather. So proud. So tell us, tell us, you know, you said that building Iron Feather is a hybrid salon, gallery, and community space. And you did that on purpose because traditional business models no longer felt enough.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah, definitely. So my background, I'll give a little sort of a deeper synopsis real quick. I was 15 years old and I needed a job. I needed like that part-time after-school job. I was sort of like doing my own thing in New York City and needed some cash. Walking to a hair salon at the age of 15, and I said, Hi, I want a job, all you know, willy-nilly. And they were like, Well, can you pick up that phone? And I was like, sure. And I was like, Thank you for calling Blue Salon. This is Jeff. And they were like, Okay, honey, you're hired. I was like, okay, great. And I was there in the salon. It was in New Jersey, in Edgewater, New Jersey, Blue Salon. I was there for about 12 years from the age of 15 to 27. And I like to say I really cut my claws there. Uh, my first boss and mentor, and still to this day, still in touch. She's like a second mother to me, Melina James. She really taught me everything I know about salon management and business development. And I think in being with her for those 12 years and sort of being incubated in that space was really, really valuable. Despite the fact that air was never my medium. Air was never in my hands. I've been surrounded by hair as an art form since the formative years of 15 plus. And but I never had it in my hands. My secret sauce and my talent was always sort of, you know, the luxury customer experience. You know, I sort of have the gift of gab, which as I've grown older throughout my career, I realized that not everybody does. And I really took it for granted and didn't know the value of it until, you know, until kind of, you know, the last four or five years in the development of Iron Feather. So 27, I left my salon in Jersey, worked towards getting a job in the city. So I started working at Cutler's Salon down at Soho on West Broadway and was hired as their operational manager, which was great. It was my first sort of break into the big city kind of thing. And through my experience at Cutler, we did a lot of air sponsorships and partnerships at New York Fashion Week. So each season we were providing the hair sponsorship for like upwards 15 to 20 plus shows per season. And, you know, I also have a little bit of a background in theater, if you couldn't tell. So I was backstage at these shows, and there was this like lights camera action thing happening. And I was really enamored by it. And I made the decision a few years into my time at Cutler to have a risky conversation and sort of leave that industry to go into event production. And that was just shy of 30. So that was sort of the precipice of my dual careers. And, you know, in building Iron Feather, which I had the amazing opportunity to do with two of my business partners who I actually met way back then when I was 27, 28 years old. They're still a part of my life in a very deep way. I really was looking at the market and I was looking at all of the other luxury salons in Soho and in Manhattan in general. I mean, there are 10 to 12 luxury salons within a four-block radius of where I am right now, outside Iron Feather. And I was looking at them, and I, you know, Jamie, I think you can attest just as far as our friendship goes, I really like to go against the grain. And I like to be rare and unique and different. And that sort of just is sort of been my ethos. And I don't know how that's been part of me, but it's just been in my DNA. So in that theory, I really wanted to create something that was bigger than just the hair blonde. Hair is always going to be the bread and butter of our business. I'd say 95% plus of our revenue is in hair. So it is the gasoline that fuels the engine. But in having it's an art gallery concept, and it's sort of a rotating every four or five months. I have a new artist on the walls. I now stopped selling traditional retail. So now I have different artisans and makers on my shelves. Right now I have a ceramicist and I have a metal worker who has these beautiful zodiac pendants. So I'm really trying to celebrate and elevate artists of all different shapes, sizes, and mediums because I just feel like I have a space that is really special. And I'll also say that the space itself helps dictate the actual business itself. We're in the former Vespa showroom space. It's 2,000 square feet, huge 25-foot ceilings. It doesn't even look like your traditional hair salon. It has a mezzanine, it has a stage area. It really is a unique space. So the space lent itself to the concept as well. Um breaking away from the traditional retail model has been really successful. I think that people walk into the space and they feel that it's rare and unique and different. And that's kind of been the secret sauce a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Did that answer the question?

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

In a roundabout way.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

And I want to share with anyone who's listening to the podcast on either Buzz Sprout, Apple, or Spotify. There is a YouTube version. The visual presentation matters here because Jeff was showcasing, you know, the beautiful pendants he's wearing and the nail art.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

And the manicure and the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I work in I work in beauty and fashion. You know, you gotta dress the part, but but it is an authentic representation of who I am for sure. And you can attest from 26, 27 years ago. I'm a more elevated version of that 14-year-old kid, I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Right, right. So you touched on it briefly, but here's the question I ask every guest who comes on risky conversations. So, what was one of the more risky conversations professionally that you engaged in?

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Professionally speaking, yes. Um why was it worth it, of course? So I'd say right before my 30th birthday, I was still at Cutler, I was managing, but I had that production bug had bitten. I had been backstage at New York Fashion Week for it was three years to now, it was like six seasons full of uh backstage shows and fun and lights, camera action. And I was like, that's what I want to do. And I felt I felt imposter syndrome a little bit in a couple different ways, right? I felt that I was no longer really passionate or excited about the career that I had at hand, even though I was very successful. I was making a good salary, the benefits, all of that sort of was uh was at my, you know, at my feet. And I just wasn't happy. And I was feeling imposter syndrome in that sense. So I had to have the risky conversation with the owner of Cutler Salon, along with my mentor at the time and still a mentor, Derek Reynolds. Sat down with them and really just had to have that heart to heart that my heart wasn't in this anymore, that I wasn't passionate about it, and that I really, you know, wanted to take the risk into the unknown. I had no idea if I was going to be able to leave that industry and transition to event production successfully. I had made a lot of contacts, you know, sort of surface-level contacts. And thankfully I was able to mine those resources and really sort of, you know, launch into something. But to have that conversation, I felt like I felt like I was failing a little bit. Felt like because I wasn't passionate about it anymore, and I was kind of abandoning a career that had been sort of that I had set up over the last 15 years, from the age of 15 to 30, been in the same industry. Um, but it just didn't feel right and it didn't feel I didn't feel authentic. And I knew that I had to leave. And that conversation was really, really hard. But I think what was hardest about it was that my boss and my mentor both recognized it before I did. They both knew before I did that I was sure and that I was going to take a risk. And the fact that others realized it before I did was challenging as well. It sort of really allowed me to check my ego a little bit. Me thinking that I knew I knew what I was doing and I was like steering my own ship and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. The fact that these people knew that what I was coming in to talk about was like kind of kind of sideswiped me a little bit. And I'll never forget that feeling of like dread, and I was afraid to disappoint people. And I but then sort of like the relief, the release valve that sort of was, you know, uh released was really just I couldn't have been happier with that conversation and where it led me to, because it led me into some really, really incredible and fantastic places. I mean, just a few months after, let's talk about how it paid off. I'd say within six months, I was down in Miami at Arc Basel working on a Madonna project, like with her. Like, like that was just like, oh, okay, I made the right decision there. But but yeah, that was a really risky one. Like say one of the riskiest that I've taken for sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

And you mentioned that in your career journey, you've had successful failures. And I love how you juxtaposed that, that the failure was successful. Yeah. And I'm curious, take you know, maybe walk me through some examples of that. What where in your journey, since that risky conversation, or through during that conversation, did you encounter successful failures? And what is it?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Sure. I'll reference one. This one's a little personal. It's both professional and personal. But I'd say one of my tenures at a production company, I was in LA working on a show. And I, you know, I have a history of some substance use issues. And I was sort of like really spiraling at the time. And I could have a complete meltdown. I had complete, I had just sort of hit that wall. And in using that, I felt like such a failure. And I I did, I sort of, I, I failed, not only myself, but my my colleagues, the company itself. It all bounced back and recovered as things do. But I used that and I took the opportunity to go and get some help and sort of get some professional help and go and focus on myself for a while. And through that failure, I found not only personal success, but then I was able to leave that situation stronger, more resilient, more conscious of who I am and what was driving me. The sort of, you know, once you realize, you know, what, you know, why you're trying to numb yourself or why you're trying to escape from, once you can put a name to that, you're able to sort of figure out and and and develop the tools to fight against that. And through that process is really where the idea of Iron Feather was born. Because I realized that through my substance use journey, I was really trying to um find joy and happiness in escapism. And part of that was because I was still unhappy in my career. I was just doing the event production stuff, and I kind of missed the salon environment and the business development aspect of what I did. And through that, I made a conscious decision to build something that both of those things could sort of be tended to and celebrated and elevated. And, you know, there was never gonna be, there is no company or business that was hiring a salon manager, professional, and an event producer. Nothing like that really exists out in the world. And if it does, hey, I'd be very curious to talk to those people. But I had to build it myself. And I think that I realized that through the failures of my substance use journey, that was a really hard one for me. And and, you know, to sort of put that all together has been a journey and it's still an ongoing journey for sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Yeah. And having known you for nearly three decades, I know your story, you know, it's just so much more, and and so much more had happened that you have endured.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah. Yes, in my, and I'm happy to talk about that too. I think that this wasn't so much a failure. This was more of a circumstantial, crazy thing. I was diagnosed with CNS lymphoma when I was 22, just I had my 23rd birthday and metastasized as a brain tumor. And I went through really, really long, arduous process, and the chemotherapy sort of backfired up on me at one point. And I went through a lot of medical trauma through it. And, you know, well, you know, in your early to mid-20s, that's kind of your formative years. That's kind of where you're really discovering yourself. So once I recovered from all of that, I still felt this sort of static, like, who am I kind of thing? And fortunately, and thank, thank, thank God for Melina and for Blue Salon, I was still employed during that time. I still was able to sort of work to my limited capabilities. But it allowed me to see the world in a very different way. Um, I thought it in um, I I left that experience having see everything, taste everything, touch everything kind of attitude. I realized how short and finite life is, and like that, it can sort of be taken away from you, which gave me an appreciation for life in a different way. And I understood now how like small and finite I am in the grand scheme of things. But with that power comes a lot of power in my teeny tiny little molecule of dust of the world that I live in. So I really try to reverberate and spread as much light as possible out into the world. So I think that through that experience, again, Iron Feather is, and Jeff Vicenti is who he is today because of all of these circumstances and all of the trials, the tribulations, the successes, and the failures. Um I wouldn't take away any of those things because I really think that I've learned so much from them. And there's a resilience that I have that's really like a beautiful thing, I think.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I you're the one of the most self possessed, mature person that I have had the pleasure of meeting, you know. I I just feel so privileged that you, you know, you're a big part of my teenage years.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Because you are too.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I I remember, you know, being 19, 20 and being your fag hag. I don't know if that's a millennial trade now. Is that like does that date us now?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

It totally dates us. Yeah. I think we're gonna get canceled if we say fag hag, but I'll say it. You were my fag hag for sure. We won't get canceled. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

And you you took me and I like followed willingly to the to the gay scene to the to the queer spaces. And it was kind of like weird when the straight men in the queer spaces would help me. Okay, that's again, that's a whole another stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

That's a riskier conversation, Jamie.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

But you know, Iron Feather is an expression of your of your you know vitality for life is is expression of your resilience, of your multi, you know what's what's the phrase here?

SPEAKER_01 22:58

It's almost like multifaceted, sort of multi-faceted, yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Thank you, thank you. Yeah, and so tell us about finding community through art that you have, iron feather, queer culture, the unconventional events, and this is what we call third space.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah, yeah, definitely a third space concept.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah, why it matters, and yeah, tell us more.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Sure, yeah. I mean, uh another little footnote that I guess can sort of like inform this answer and inform who Iron Feather is or what Iron Feather is, was you know, in my and Jamie, you know this too, in my teenage years, I was briefly homeless and I really sort of found a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

What have you not been through, Jeff Vicente? You've been through it all. You've been through all this, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

No, no, no, no, no, no. I no. I we all have our own unique journeys and experiences, and mine is no more, mine is no harder, easier, lighter, darker than yours, to his to theirs. We all have our own human experiences. So, yes, my journey's taking me to some wild places, but through that year or so where I was experiencing homelessness or unhoused, I found home in queer spaces in down the West Village, down on Christopher Street, back when Christopher Street was not dignified, it was not gentrified, it was definitely still a little sketchy, for lack of a better word. But then I also discovered the LGBT center, and through that space, I found a queer community at a very young age, and I was so inspired by the people who were, you know, who were there and the friendships that we built through that. I'm not in touch with any of those people anymore, but they still touch me to a degree. And so I think that I've always wanted to celebrate queer culture. I think you know, I came at a very, very young age. And even Jamie, me taking you to those queer spaces when we were a little underage, when we were maybe not supposed to be there. I really love to shine a light on those places. And through Iron Feather, not only do I get to shine a light on it, I get to, you know, create the light, which I think has been really inspiring. And so a lot of my programming in the first year was very queer, or at least queer-coded. You know, we did a Madonna podcast recording event slash nightclub experience. Um, I created this masquerade ball called Valentine's in Versailles, where I created, it was almost like a sleep no more experimental theater experience in my space. And that's the versatility that Iron Feather as a physical space can become. And even right now, the artists on my walls that I'm that I've curated, his name is Harvey Redding. He's an older queer gentleman in his 70s. He's the curator at the Soho Project Space, which is also affiliated with the Leslie Lawman Museum. So I've sort of like naturally tapped into and organically tapped into this, you know, uh additional queer third spaces. Um yeah, yeah, and I think it's really important. I think that in having been out in New York City, you know, for the last quarter century, I discovered that these spaces are sort of fleeting, actually. There aren't a lot of from there aren't a lot of spaces like this anymore. Like an Andy Warhol Factory 2.0 is sort of my my new mood board and vision. But yeah, I'm very grateful to create a third space, not only for queer people, it's really people of all shapes, sizes, genders, you know, walks of life. So very grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

And because you, you know, you you kind of what's the right almost like you were raised in them, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Um that year that I was sort of unhoused, it was not, and it was I I want to be clear, this was not a traditional sort of like, oh, you're thrown out because you were gay. It wasn't that. There was a series of family complications where I sort of made the decision to sort of separate myself for my own safety and well-being, which ironically led me to the streets of the West Village. So I mean, I don't know, which was, you know, again, no regrets, and it shaped who I am. And I say I cut my claws on Christopher Street, which absolutely did. So I'm sorry, I I wait, I I lost the train of thought a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Well, I was just gonna say, it's it's fabulous that you've created a safe space now. Yes, absolutely. That is also a third space, and people can be cool and do elevated stuff and art and just hang out and be their quirky, queer selves or or not queer, whichever.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah, I call all of us magical, mythical unicorns. And I think a lot of unicorns were the black sheep of their family. Um I know that I was, and I think to give a platform, because yes, yes, to your now I'm now I'm linking everything together. Um down on Christmas Street and at the piers, it it wasn't always safe. And even though I was able to express myself, you know, authentically, it came with its dangers. And that has partly to do with the time, right? 1999, 2000. It's you know, you know, HIV was still HIV and AIDS was still definitely you know prevalent and the topic of conversation. And, you know, I remember, you know, walking even down the village in Chelsea, like sometimes the windows of a car would roll down and I'd be shouted out faggot. You know what I mean? Like that that that was dangerous. And I'm grateful and I love that the culture has shifted where we are more accepting and we're more um conscious of the, you know, of the the reverberations of our words and actions. But part of my DNA lives in those queer spaces, and the fact that I've been able to build that with my two incredible partners who are also queer, like we really just put our heads together and yeah, and wanted to make a space for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah. And entrepreneurship is hard.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Oh, tell me all about it.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah, it's really effing hard, you know? Um you've been through some stuff, and resilience is core of who you are. But have there been moments when it was so hard that you're like, oh, I don't know if we're gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Um it has been so hard, but I never ever thought we can't keep going. I I am resilient enough and I've got a thick enough skin to know that this too shall pass. I like to talk about a lot, and my team and my partners hate that I think that's one of my Jeff isms, but like I like to say, I see the forest over the tree, right? I think that we can get so bogged down in the everyday minutiae of things and the challenges and the beatdowns and the, you know, the PL's tight this month, and blah, blah, blah, blah. As opposed to sort of like taking a bigger, sort of visionary look at the surroundings. Now, sometimes I will say, sometimes if I'm not paying attention to the tree and what's right in front of me, sometimes I'm not noticing if there's a little rock going on or if there's a little something that needs to be addressed. Sometimes I'm thinking too big, sometimes. But I think that in thinking more about the forest and the holistic sense of where the business is, it allows me to identify that this too shall pass. And this is a growing pain, and they're called growing pains for a reason. And you just have to breathe into it, take your, you know, your yoga breaths, whatever you need to do, just hold that pose a little longer and a little and live in that discomfort for a little bit longer because the payoff, which is that long, beautiful yoga body, is going to be worth it. The cake is worth the calories, I say.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Have you ever experienced burnout?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yes, for sure. I think that I'm the type of person who really goes full throttle. I think that through anybody who deals with addiction, I think is an extremist to a point. And I'm sorry, I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself. I know that I like to live on the extremes. I'm either vibrating and functioning all the way up here, this high frequency level, or like, don't look at me, don't talk to me, I can't get out of bed, kind of thing. And I have to be very conscious of my energies and how a full throttle I'm going and catch myself to back up a little bit. And that's a work in progress. I don't have an answer. Like, I wish I could say, like, and this is how I do it, but like, I don't know. I just kind of like, you know, I'm figuring it out. As I think probably most entrepreneurs of a young business are. I think when you're so passionate about your business. And and also, you know, I have a team of nearly 20 that, you know, me and my two business partners are responsible for. And with that, you know, there's burnout in that sometimes. It's it's putting sometimes putting other people's needs before your own, and that has its own burnout capability. So yeah, burnout comes. And it's when I guess when it happens, I really just need to step away sometimes. And and I need to know, I'm learning that I can step away, and nothing's gonna burn down. The house will still be there when I come back to it. It's tended well, and I we put enough systems in place that the ship can steer a little bit when the captains take a little break to rest. And that's a hard one.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

That's the evidence of leadership.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Yeah, yes. It's about building systems for sure. Yeah. And I always say we we own processes, not people. And I think that in this industry, in particular, in the beauty and hair industry, there are a lot of people who feel like they own their staff, or they own, you know, or that they're responsible for the career journeys of their of their stylists and their service providers and all that. But I say I own the processes, not the people. And because of that, I'm able to shape and sculpt and finesse my systems and my procedures. I can't shape, you know, I I I can't I can't manipulate and finesse people, I but I can create the processes that they live in or that they live around.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

You sound just like a leadership book right now. Like a couple of things.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Oh my God, I do.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

I think what it sounds like. Processes, not control people. We manage processes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

I mean, they're my little Jeffisms, some of them, which you know, I I I hold on dearly to myself. So, and I try to share them as much as I can to anyone who will listen. But I'm pretty engaging, pretty charming. People listen to me sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

And what what was so charming, what remains charming, is your wholehearted devotion to Madonna.

unknown 34:55

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

I've never had a person who loves an artist, like who worships an artist as you do. And so let's talk about Madonna. But more I'm curious, what did Madonna teach you about invention?

SPEAKER_01 35:16

About, I'm sorry, about what?

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Reinvention.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Reinvention. Well, I mean, she's constantly been evolving, she constantly is keeping people guessing. Uh but she is authentically living through these incarnations of herself. He has, I think, a curiosity that I think is sometimes not recognized. He has a hunger for knowledge, for art, for literature. And then she's able to sort of take those things and you know process them through herself and then sort of, you know, release it onto the world, her version of it, her through her sort of mindset. And also just throughout her whole career, she's had, you know, an absolutely no regrets sort of attitude to life. And I really feel the same way. I can loop that back to successful failures. Um, you know, again, the the sort of episode that I had, which was really challenging and really sort of, you know, seismic and shaped my life and affected and reverberated. I don't regret any of that because I learned so much from those failures, as has Madonna. Like we've watched her through the years, you know, whether that was her sex book where she received so much vitriol and so much, you know, she was, you know, she was deemed a witch and a Satanist for all the things that she was doing at the time, which is just wild to me now. Like when we look back in retrospect. But she always kept going, she always forged ahead. And, you know, she never let you see her sweat. Really, she just kept going. And there's that resilience that I that I admire so much about her. Um and she's been entertaining throughout the years, which I try to do as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

We have so much in common. So here's a curveball.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Maybe not quite a curveball, but uh, I coach women who hate office politics, right? And office politics, interpersonal drama, power imbalances, conflict. Yeah. And I'm curious, you you've been in uh the luxury salon and the event space, you've been through office, you've experienced it firsthand. So what did Madonna teach you about navigating through office politics?

SPEAKER_01 37:41

That's a really good question. I think so, in the salon world, there's something that I call compare and despair. And I think, and this is true throughout every this is a human experience, right? Yeah. Compare and despair is a social disease, I think. And I think that you know, Instagram social media just sort of fuels that fire. But I found a lot of stylists who either they just hit the floor and are sort of building their clientele and their business, or, you know, uh seasoned, established artists constantly comparing and despairing, right? And looking at somebody else's books and being like, why are they busy and I'm not, right? And then there became this competitive sort of thing. And instead of celebrating and elevating everybody as a team to raise them up, there was a selfishness that happened. And I think, you know, Madonna, I think, doesn't do the compare and despair thing. She might compare because she's curious as to what others are doing, but I never saw a despair. I always saw a curiosity and a hunger for more knowledge and more, you know, just more experiences. And when I would, and even to this day, and I'm very grateful to say that I don't really have that so much in my everyday life at Iron Feather, but in recent salons that I managed, I would really try to let that person, again, forest over tree sort of thing, thinking the bigger picture, not what's just right in front of them. You know, when Madonna does an album campaign or she's doing a project, she's laid out the forest for herself. And we're just on the journey. She's not hung up, no pun intended. She's not hung up on the, you know, just what's right in front of her. So yeah, I think that's thanks for the curve, Ball. I think I did okay there.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

That was great. That was great. I've never heard Madonna explain to me in this way. And now I'm like thinking about her almost like, you know, as a scholar, as a as a as a nerd, as somebody who has this deep hunger for knowledge. I I've never really, honestly, in my entire life heard her explain to me in that way. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

And thank you for she's an art school nerd. She's a weirdo art kid when it all comes down to it. If you look at references from a lot of her videos and a lot of just her output creatively, it references a lot of artists from, you know, from the yesterday and all that. And a lot of her output is based on, you know, different books that she's reading at the time. And uh, she's really a scholar of the world. And I think that again, I think that people have pigeonholed her into just the box, which is another huge takeaway that I've had from her, is to not live inside the box. You know, create a create a container because I think that, you know, creativity without a container is just chaos. And so you need to have a container, but not necessarily a box. It can sort of be, you know, be a hexagon, just one little spot that's open, you know, the little latchway.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Everyone should watch the video version of this podcast because you've just been so activated and my gesticulations and and also beautiful. It's okay for me to say that, right? Just beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

So of course it is. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Um thank you.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Absolutely. You have to say that. Remember, it's me.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

So I'm so grateful you made the time to come on Risky Conversations. Where can people go? Where where is Iron Feather?

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Sure, they can go to ironfeather.nyc. Our website is in a little bit of a redevelopment mode. I think that with the evolution of who we've become over the last two years that we've been open, we are sort of in a redevelopment phase of our social presence. Or you can also find us on Instagram at ironfeather.nyc. And for all of your listeners, anybody who wanted to book an appointment can use the promo code IF15 for 15% off their first service. Look at me, I call that ABC. Always be closing.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Always be closing. But no, what's the address?

SPEAKER_01 42:00

If Oh, yes, of course.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Yes. We're on 6th Grand Street between 6th Avenue Barrick. We're right off of the ACE and the one train canal street stops. Literally, just you know, we're a block away from each of them. Um it's beautiful, kind of like right off the beaten path of like the West Broadway Taurusy Soho spot. It's just, it's a really great environment. And I invite everybody to come and say hi. You do not need a hair appointment to come check out the art, enjoy a glass of proseco with me in the lounge. So come on, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Oh, amazing. Jeff, I you are wise, you are deep, you're really freaking smart and beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Thank you. I appreciate that, Jamie. And I'm so just indebted to you. I think that what you've done over the last few years has been so inspiring and to watch you from, you know, a young girl. I mean, we were we were both young girls. We were both young girls, yes, we were. We were both young, young ladies at one point to see who you've grown into and just the strength and resilience and what you do for others than other women in in the corporate world is really inspiring. And even though we're on pretty different career paths, I think that there is a parallel nature in the fact that we want to help celebrate and elevate people. And uh, I love you. I adore you so much.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

I love you too. All right. On that note, we'll talk soon. All right, bye. Thank you for joining me today on Risky Conversations. Remember, everything worthwhile is on the other side of a risky conversation. And when done well, your self-advocacy becomes an act of service. If you're ready to de-risk your own career evolution, I invite you to book a free hour-long consultation at jamleecoach.com slash apply. J A M I E L E E C O A C H dot com slash apply. We'll map out your custom blueprint to confidence and get you on the path to being better paid on your own terms. Let's make your next conversation the one that changes everything. Talk soon.