Jamie Lee: (00:00)
Welcome to negotiate your Career Growth. I'm Jamie Lee, and I teach you how to blend the best of negotiation strategies with feminist coaching so you get promoted and better paid without burning bridges or burning out in the process. Let's get started.
Jamie Lee: (00:15)
Hello. Hello. Bad asses. How are you? Happy October. It feels really good to be alive. That's the thought I have today. Here in New York City, we're having this gorgeous, delicious, sunny weather, which has been made even more amazing by the fact that the first half of this week, for the first three days, we had cold, gray, gloom -- raining, nonstop for three straight days. And now we have this amazing blue sky bird singing situation that has me feeling like, yeah, life is good, life is amazing, , of course, you can think life is good and life is amazing. Even when it's cold, gray and gloom, it might just take a little bit more effort. , I I, I can recognize that. In any case, in my one-on-one executive coaching practice, I have my clients come to every session prepared to celebrate their wins, their successes, their progress.
Jamie Lee: (01:21)
And anything they're proud of, anything they wanna give themselves acknowledgement for. This is because I believe, I know that self-validation as opposed to seeking validation from someone outside of you. External validation, self-validation is the cornerstone of self-confidence. And I just wanna share my mind. My brain has just been, my mind is just blowing by the results, by, by the growth that by the, by the breakthroughs my clients are having, uh, in these coaching sessions and the breakthroughs that they are achieving in their careers. I have clients who are securing their promotion path to the C-suite. I have clients who are so good at what they do. They are creating, um, the path to a successful entrepreneurship while they're full-time engaged in their work and getting promoted. I have clients who are bringing this zen like calm, this grounded confidence to dealing with do or die situations.
Jamie Lee: (02:35)
I have clients who are securing their second promotion and coming to the career conversations with firm belief that, yeah, I am the leader that this team needs. This is why the time for me to get promoted is now. I am so proud of my clients. I know it's kind of biased cuz I am their coach. I am in their corner. I am a hundred percent on their side, but even still my mind is blown. I have this little sticky note on my computer that's says powerhouse to remind me of who my clients are, who these women are and what they're capable of. They're powerhouses. They're capable of amazing things and here's why. Here's why they're doing these amazing things. They've healed their imposter syndrome. They've healed the story that they're not good enough or that they don't deserve growth, success, more money, more, more of what they truly want.
Jamie Lee: (03:34)
And today's, and for today's podcast, I have prepared a segment of a talk that I gave to the Smith College Alumnae Club. I was asked to lead a workshop on how to replace imposter syndrome with confidence. And so I decided to be very open and vulnerable and share my personal experience of how I went from tears to feeling terrific because I went from struggling with the thoughts like, I don't belong here, I'm not good enough, I don't deserve success, yada, yada yada. Which I called the, the well intended lies of the Itty Bitty Shitty Committee. You're gonna hear more about that in just a few minutes. And I'm going to walk you through my journey and how I used coaching tools, mindset tools to build confidence, take action and generate new results. And I think this is going to be really helpful for some of you who already know the action steps or maybe you think, Oh, mindset is overrated.
Jamie Lee: (04:38)
I just need to know what to do. But, but healing your imposter syndrome is the key. It is the first step to generating success, first step, to really claiming and having the growth that you want in your career as well as in your personal arenas. And so without further ado, I hope you enjoy this, uh, brief talk. This talk that I gave on how to replace imposter syndrome with confidence. And if you want to take this work further, I invite you to book your complimentary one hour consultation where I guarantee that you will leave with your own custom blueprint to success. The link to that will be in the show notes. Enjoy.
Jamie Lee: (05:25)
Hello everyone. Hello. It's so great to see your beautiful faces. My name is Jamie Lee. I'm Smith alum class of 2004. I lived in Jordan House and so for my junior year abroad, which I did in Tokyo, Japan, and I, uh, majored in East Asian studies and now I do something that is not directly relevant. I work as an executive coach for smart women who hate office politics and I help them get promoted and get better paid without throwing anyone under the bus. And how do I do this? I marry the best of mutual win negotiation strategies with the best of feminist coaching tools to help my clients achieve satisfying career growth without burning out or burning bridges. So today we're gonna talk about how to replace imposter syndrome with confidence. How do you go from feeling like an imposter in your career to feeling confident in your career and achieving satisfying career growth?
Jamie Lee: (06:28)
Uh, before I dive into the topic, I see people are dialing in. It's so great to see all of you here. I think more, uh, people will be joining in the next few minutes. So I'm going to give a brief talk. I'm going to share with you what my personal experience of imposter syndrome has been and how I used coaching tools to help me go from imposter syndrome to confidence. And then I'm going to open the floor up for open coaching. Finally, I wanna let you know if you really enjoy the session, if you are looking to work with a career or an executive coach, I'm gonna let you know exactly how you can book one-on-one time with me. Uh, if you want to have, uh, free consultation, I'll let you know how to book that. And um, yeah, I hope this is going to be a fun and enlightening time for, for all the Smith's year.
Jamie Lee: (07:22)
I've just received so much benefit from Smith College. The education has, has just been, uh, a gift that keeps giving and giving to me. And it is such an amazing and awesome privilege to be able to give back to the Smith community here today. So thank you so much for, you know, showing up on this beautiful Thursday, uh, evening here in New York City. It's this clear sky beautiful day after three days of straight rain. So I really appreciate you showing up live. So let's get to it. What is imposter syndrome? I think imposter syndrome is when you are believing the voices of what I call the itty bitty shitty committee at a growth opportunity. When you're at the stage of growing and growing into the next level in your career, next level, professional or personal development, and you hear the voice of the itty bitty shitty committee and you believe it.
Jamie Lee: (08:21)
So who is the itty bitty shitty committee? You could probably guess is like the voices in your head that want you to stay itty bitty and feeling shitty. And often the itty bitty shitty committee are wearing, or they, they, um, sound a lot like the committee of people who have doubted you, who wanted you to stay small. Uh, sometimes it's your parents, sometimes it is, um, a jealous sibling. Sometimes it was that difficult boss, right? These people who didn't see your full potential, who, who doubted that you can achieve greatness. And you internalize that voice and now you're hearing in your head it's the itty bitty shitty committee. Itty bitty shitty committee. They actually have a great intention. Their intention is to keep you safe, right? But they tell lies. And so I just wanna tell you right off the bat, when you hear the voice of the ad bitty shitty committee, we all do, right?
Jamie Lee: (09:17)
It doesn't make you wrong. It doesn't make you not good enough, right? The voice of the ad bitty shitty committee tell you well intended lies. So hearing it interacting with it doesn't make you wrong. It doesn't make you not good enough or that growth opportunity where the next level in your growth, it just makes you human, right? And so let me, let me put it a different way. Imposter syndrome is when you're outsize when your external realities don't match your internal real, but your thinking and feeling doesn't match the growth that you have achieved, the growth that you will achieve. Or when you compare your shabby insides because you're listening and believing the bit shitty committee to what you perceive to be other people's shiny outside the totally, um, it's totally not an apples to apples comparison cuz we see other people and then we perceive them to be better.
Jamie Lee: (10:17)
We perceive them to be not feeling shabby on the inside. But you never know what people are actually thinking and feeling as they seem to be confident and all put together. Yeah, I can imagine some of you having that thought about me. Like I bet she never has imposter syndrome, but of course I have. I'm human . So, you know, you have imposter syndrome when you're feeling like you're at this growth stage and you feel like you haven't earned it, you haven't earned that growth. Or maybe if you are a woman and a person who, uh, identifies as a woman or a person socialize as a woman or non-binary person, or maybe you are a a person of color like I am or person of my marginalized identity, and you are hired into a leadership position and you thinking, Oh, maybe that was a fook.
Jamie Lee: (11:11)
Maybe I was just diversity hire, meaning maybe they made a mistake hiring me into this position and maybe someone will find out that they made a big mistake and all of this is just gonna go away. Yeah. In other words, your brain is unconsciously a subconscious level. It's thinking maybe I don't really deserve it, or maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I don't belong here. So I see some hits. No nodding. So smithy's, I know we are smart, we are driven. We, we love to go for growth. And I just wanna assure you, if you've ever had these thoughts, you are not wrong. It doesn't make you not good enough. It just makes you human. And it is especially common among high achieving women. And it makes sense because even though we had this fabulous education at Smith College where we got to interact with other, you know, highly intelligent driven women or people, uh, socialize as women, um, and non-binary people, when we are in the quote unquote real world and we're trying to achieve professional growth, the reality is most of these professional arenas remain male dominated.
Jamie Lee: (12:35)
And so we don't see a model, We don't often see a female model. We don't often see a, a, a person of color model that we feel like, Oh yeah, we can just emulate. It's gonna be easy for me. So then of course it's common for high achieving women to experience imposter syndrome. So I was thinking about this topic and yesterday I was scrolling through Instagram as one does. And my colleague, who is a life coach for performers, she posted on Instagram, her Instagram handle is the end reality, all one word. And she posted imposter syndrome is being really mean to yourself in the middle of a growth opportunity. And that made a lot of sense to me because if you just believe, you just blindly believe the innovative shitty committee, you're being mean to yourself, you're beating yourself down, You're negating yourself, you're cutting yourself down.
Jamie Lee: (13:32)
So I wanna tell you a little bit more about me and my personal experience of imposter syndrome. I'm a South Korean immigrant. I was born in South Korea. I immigrated to America with my two sisters and my mom 19 89, 33 years ago. I'm 40. My 20th reunion is just two years away. I learned English as a second language and I grew up in a predominantly white sub suburban neighborhood in New Jersey as a latchkey immigrant kid. And so from an early age, I had a lot of opportunity to practice this thought that I don't belong here because people, some bullies, some schoolyard bullies would tell me that I don't belong here. And it was very easy for me to internalize and believe that. And when I was growing up, my mom ended up raising the three daughters by herself single handedly with, you know, broken English, uh, no rich uncle to foot the bill, no child support from my dad.
Jamie Lee: (14:29)
In fact, um, truth is when my mom was in South Korea raising the three of us, she actually encountered, uh, domestic abuse because she had daughters. And because she didn't give birth to any sons, this was considered like not good enough. In any case, we come here to America and my mom told me over and over again, Jamie, you among the, you know, the four of us, you speak English really well. So you gotta be willing to speak up on behalf of the family. You gotta be brave. You gotta ask for what you want. And she was my first self-advocacy coach. Like, I sort of became my mother , right? And um, when I was growing up, I would just roll my eyes and be like, Oh wow, you don't get it. I, I can't make waves because if I, if I make waves, if I stick up for myself, then I'm no longer be safe from, you know, being exposed as a person, as a kid who doesn't belong here, being exposed for potential discrimination.
Jamie Lee: (15:33)
And I mean, that was a real, uh, thing for me growing up. And I'm sure for you, for some of you, you've experienced the variation of that. Whe whether you are an immigrant, whether you are a person of color, like we've all encountered some sort of discrimination or, uh, bias or unconscious bias, uh, just by the fact that we are women with career ambitions in this imperfect world. And I graduated from Smith College with an East Asian studies degree and I didn't know what I was gonna do with my life. And so I just sort of put my resume up on Craigslist. I know this is crazy talk, right? But this was like more than 10 years ago. I put my resume on Craigslist and I got a job at a hedge fund at an Asian equities hedge fund that was looking for somebody with Asian language skills.
Jamie Lee: (16:24)
So I had zero finance skills, I had zero accounting knowledge. I didn't even take statistics at Smith. I know it was a very popular class. I didn't take it cuz I was intimidated by math. I took philosophy instead. And so I get this job right before the financial crisis and of course I'm experiencing imposter syndrome. Yeah. I was the only quote unquote girl, right? Cuz these are people were all men at the tra desk. I was the only woman at the firm when I got hired. And yeah, so I had this thought that was just like a constant hum. And, and the thing that I wanna say out loud and, um, helping notice is that this particular thought wasn't even conscious for me at the time. It was only after the fact when I really thought about why was I having so much stress? Why was I having such difficult time in this job?
Jamie Lee: (17:21)
I noticed only retrospectively, unconsciously underneath all of the thoughts, like, Oh, I gotta do better. You know, I, I gotta, I gotta keep striving to learn this stuff. Underneath all of it was the thought, I'm not good enough. And so then of course I was feeling stressed out. Of course I was feeling anxious. Of course I was feeling undeserving of my analyst position at this hedge fund. And so here's what I did, because I had the thought, because I was internalizing my, a bitty shitty committee. I was second guessing myself Every day. I'd go home after work and I would play the conversations at work, and I would play like all these things that I did and didn't do good enough. I would play them over and over in my head on loop, and I would be negating myself. I would downplay my strengths and, and I'd be like, I don't know why they hired me.
Jamie Lee: (18:18)
Why do I have this job? Why they pay me all this money? And then I would, in my mind, magnify my perceived flaws. And I would of course, in imagine that my manager, my male colleagues, the traders at the hedge fund were all looking down on me and judging me. Um, not seeing me as somebody who is good enough or deserving of this position. I was just pure projection, right? Projecting my insecurities onto them. And I was getting hypervigilant. I was very like oversensitive to any sort of feedback or criticism. I would just, again, because man magnifying all of that in my head is evidence that I wasn't good enough. And of course, I was comparing and despairing thinking about all these other women, other analysts, other people who get this finance and accounting stuff. And why do I have this job? I I, I I'm not good enough, right?
Jamie Lee: (19:14)
Catastrophizing the situation in my head. And again, the reality was that I had this job because I had skills, because I had an East studies degree from Smith College because I had the capacity to learn, right? To adapt new things that, I mean, that was the meta skill that I learned from Smith, right? To be able to learn new things. And, and my employer saw that. They're like, Oh yeah, she went to Smith. She has Japanese Korean language skills. She can learn this, right? But my experience in my brain was divorced from the reality and the truth of my situation. So this is common . Yeah. And I just wanna highlight it all started from the thought, this unconscious thought, I'm not good enough, feeling anxious, second guessing myself and creating more evidence in my brain. And at that time, this was more than 12 years ago, I had no idea that the sentence I'm not good enough had been programmed into me.
Jamie Lee: (20:22)
Not by my choice, but by patriarchy, by a society that diminishes women, diminishes people of color. And from my early childhood experiences, right? It wasn't something that I chose for myself. I had inherited this thought. I, it had been conditioned into me. It wasn't consciously chosen by me. And everything changed for me when I learned that my thought is a choice, that I have an option. I just hadn't known that I have that option because the thought I'm not good enough is just a string of words in my brain that creates the internal experience of feeling shabby on the inside, even though I had this fancy hedge fund job. And so for me, at the end, this particular hedge fund job turned out not to be a fit. And I just wanna highlight that because I didn't quit because, um, I didn't quit because, because, well, I just, I wanna be really careful here because yes, I had a lot of imposter syndrome thoughts, and it was so bad that I, I created illness and I had infections.
Jamie Lee: (21:41)
You know, I, I really manifest, well, not manifested, but I, I created this stressful situation for myself that resulted in me feeling sick. Uh, and I chose to leave this job that was a conscious decision that I made because I realized the culture wasn't gonna change and it wasn't something that I really wanted to pursue. I didn't really wanna become a hedge fund trader or an analyst. Uh, so I chose to leave this particular job at the height of the recession without another job lined up. And I know that's not something that most career coaches advise you do. Uh, but it was the right choice. It was the right decision for me. But guess what? Here's the rub icontinue to struggle with imposter syndrome after leaving this hedge fund, because I hadn't yet learned that my thoughts are optional.
Jamie Lee: (22:35)
I continue to, um, here's what I did after I left that hedge fund job. I thought I had to get an mba, I have to get a master's degree in order for me to be good enough. And so then I stressed myself out. I was overworking, I was over studying. I was like, Oh my God, if I don't get the perfect score on this, on this gma, I'll never, I'll never have a good life because I'm Asian. and Asians have to have perfect scores. I mean, I mean, those are the thoughts, like honest to God. And so I was a nut case . And so I'm sharing that with you because here's evidence that your Imposs syndrome is not a result of your circumstances is not a result of a job. Your boss or your employment status. Your imposter syndrome really is because of the unconscious, pre-programmed, disempowering sentences that your brain will offer up at a growth opportunity.
Jamie Lee: (23:32)
Here's what I learned that changed everything. Thoughts are optional. I am not my thoughts. I have the choice to get carried away, but my by what my brain offers, or I have the choice to observe what my brain offers and make a conscious shift. Cause thoughts are arbitrary. And many of the thoughts that are like swimming around in our heads are effects of the patriarchal oppression and patriarchal conditioning, not our conscious feminist decision to see ourselves as just as capable as any other person of gender identification. So I'm gonna give you one more example of how I experience, uh, imposter syndrome. Uh, because sometimes you experience imposter syndrome, even when you have the credential, even when you have the experience, even when you have the background to know like, yeah, I'm good at what I do. I know I can do it. Okay, I I'm just looking at my notes here.
Jamie Lee: (24:41)
Yes. So I'm gonna give you another personal example. I, since I left that hedge fund job, I pivoted to working for tech startups and then I made a conscious decision. I wanna become a coach. I wanna help women, you know, better advocate, negotiate, and lead in the workplace. And so since 2016, so it's about, it's been about six years, I've been a full-time coach. Uh, but there was a time in my coaching practice where I was struggling, even though I had the skills, even though I had the credentials, the certification, I had client testimonials, I was struggling to fill my coaching practice. So right now I have about like 15 clients, and at one point I had only about four clients. And this circumstance was not an ideal circumstance for me to feel confident about myself, right? And sometimes this happens. And so I, again, my brain was offering the 80 bitty shitty committee piped up and it's like, I'm not good enough.
Jamie Lee: (25:42)
Yeah. And so of course I felt anxious and sad. And this time, because I had these coaching tools, I was able to observe my brain and notice the thoughts that the I bitty shitty committee were generously offering me. And recognize, okay, this isn't the truth of my reality. This is not, this is not true, but I have the emotions because my brain is offering the thought. And so instead of reacting by second guessing myself or overworking, or trying to hustle my, my way out of this doubt, I sat and I processed my emotions. I allowed the vibrations of anxiety and sadness to just pass through my body without resisting or judging them is wrong. In other words, I chose to observe and not react, but observe and process. Again, I just wanna say the thought process for me was, of course these thoughts are coming up and I don't have to judge myself. I don't have to shame myself. I don't have to tell myself that I'm a terrible person because I have these doubts. I could be like, of course I do. I'm human. I'm a human who's been exposed to the experiences early childhood, the patriarchal conditioning, of course. And instead, I dropped into my body and I released the shame. And for me, that looked like crying , then you're like crying and reaffirming to my myself, Yeah, this is hard. Yeah, I have doubt sometimes. And still, I am worthy of my dreams.
Jamie Lee: (27:30)
I am capable and I'm worthy. And like sharing this out loud with you makes me feel a little like, um, sensitive just to, just to remember that that level of intimacy with my myself and just like have choosing to have my own back and meeting myself with that level of compassion. It took cuts it, it took courage, it took vulnerability with myself. Not easy, but transformational. I know coaches, us, coaches love to use that word, but truly because when I did that, then I was able to get to a clearing within myself to get to a calm, grounded place where I made conscious decisions about I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep, you know, offering my services, I'm gonna keep marketing. I'm gonna keep showing up and telling people about what, you know, coaching can do for them not giving up. I'm not gonna give up on myself.
Jamie Lee: (28:25)
I'm not going to give up believing in myself. And so I keep showing up and I keep showing up. I then create results, right? Taking action is what leads to confidence. But you wanna be taking action from a place of having your own back, believing in yourself. Yeah. And so now I, I've, you know, I have more than, oh goodness, I have more than four x the number of clients that I'm working with. So now I can be like, yes, I have created results, I have the evidence, I have created this circumstance that is more conducive for me to feel even more confident. But the way to get there, to courage, emotional courage. And so, uh, to wrap this up, I just wanna offer you some, um, high level, um, tools. So something that you can practice on your own. If you experience imposter syndrome, first of all, pause.
Jamie Lee: (29:35)
If you experience the it bitty shitty committee piping up in your brain, offering you these zero thoughts, like, Oh, you're not good, right? Just pause. Notice, observe without judgment. Sometimes I just like to take dictation, write it down. And just the act of writing down these, uh, terribly terrible thoughts sometimes gives me that, that tiny bit of distance for me to notice, Oh, of course I'm feeling this way. Of course I'm feeling anxious, frustrated. Now, doubtful and undeserving because these are the sentences that's in my head. And just meet yourself with some kindness and compassion. Of course, I feel this way because I'm human. Of course, I'm feeling some anxiety and some doubt cause that's, that's totally human of me. Some actionable tips that I wanna give you. Sometimes imposter syndrome is exacerbated when we have perfectionism. A smith is, some of us have perfectionism by some, I mean to say most of us, we love to strive for perfection because we love to strive for excellence.
Jamie Lee: (30:49)
But perfectionism is all or nothing thinking black or white, not good enough, good enough. And almost 99.9% of the time, if you set yourself to that perfectionist standard, you're gonna be like, I'm not good enough. And if you think, uh, the standard of perfection is defined by somebody else, whether your boss liked your presentation, whether your colleague gave you a great feedback, then now you are not in control of your confidence. And for that reason, set minimum baseline standards for yourself that are in your control. Okay? Minimum baseline. What is the most basic things that you can decide for yourself that will be in your control and only assess your progress based on that minimum baseline? So to give you an example, did I show up professionals show up on time? Did I show up on time? Great. That's a minimum baseline, right? Did I meet the basic criteria?
Jamie Lee: (31:59)
Did I do what was expected of me? Great. Minimum baseline check, right? If I'm a leader, did I try to convey my vision the best way I can? Great check. I'm meeting my minimum baseline. So you bring that, um, assessment, uh, the self-validation in house. Okay? And number five, the last tip I wanna give you, number one was pause. Notice number two was observe your brain without judgment. Number three, meet yourself with kindness, compassion. Number four, set minimum baseline that's in your control. And number five, keep of your own progress. Keep track of your wins and compare yourself to you only right? When we're in imposter syndrome, we love to look at other people's shiny outside and we're like, Oh, I'm not like, that must be not good enough. Bs, total bs. You wanna look at, okay, where was I a month ago? Where was I a year ago with this skill? Am I making progress compared to myself?