Jamie Lee (00:00):
Welcome to Negotiate your Career Growth. I'm Jamie Lee, and I teach you how to blend the best of negotiation strategies with feminist coaching, so you get promoted and better paid without burning bridges or burning out in the process. Let's get started. Hello? Hello, hello. I'm recording this in early December, 2022, and the last day of this year, December 31st, happens to be my 41st birthday, and I'm one of those people who love to celebrate the entire month of their birthday. So I'm celebrating my birth month all December. And in the spirit of celebration, I'm so excited to share this interview that I've done with my client, Brandy Walton. I celebrate my clients. My clients, they inspire me. So the reason is that of course, they're amazing people, and once you hear this interview, you'll see why you'll be blown away by Brandy, who is the real deal.
(01:08)
But for me, at a very personal level, I am doing this work, this change work, this coaching work, because I needed that change for myself most desperately. I needed to learn how to negotiate, how to advocate, how to generate self-confidence from the inside out for myself, and to see me not only doing this work for myself, but now taking it further and sharing it with my clients, and seeing them take this work and run what seems like to me, what feels like a marathon with what I teach them is so fun, so mind blowing, so exciting. So in this interview with Brandy, you are going to learn how you can generate confidence in yourself to negotiate for yourself when you are the only in the room, whether that is, that you're the only female or the only woman of color, and you're gonna learn how to stop burning out when you know that you have excellence inside of you.
(02:21)
And when you give 120, 150% all of the time, you're gonna learn how to stop burning out from thinking that maybe you haven't done enough, maybe you're not enough, and you're gonna learn how you can negotiate your C-Suite ambitions along with your salary and equity compensation upfront. This is everything that we cover in this amazing interview. So I wanna let you know if you wanna go into more detail about how you can negotiate your compensation, please check out my podcast series, how to Get Better Paid, it's episodes eight through 11. And without further ado, please enjoy this awesome interview with my client, Brandy Walton.
Jamie Lee (03:22):
Brandy, welcome to the podcast.
Brandy Walton (03:25):
Hello. Hello.
Jamie Lee (03:27):
Hey. So Brandy Walton is director of Commercials operations at Spring Works, and I'm so delighted to have you here to share with us your experience through the coaching journey, uh, what changes and shifts you've experienced and the results that you've created. I think it's really going to help a lot of women as well as women of color, um, who are looking to see what models are out there, what role models are out there, uh, who are demonstrating how to believe in themselves, believe in their worth, and advocate for what they want in their careers. What are your thoughts about that?
Brandy Walton (04:06):
I'm ready, Jamie. Thank you so much for having me.
Jamie Lee (04:09):
Awesome, awesome. So Brandy, maybe you can tell us briefly where you were in your career journey when you first started coaching with me. I, I think we started coaching together, uh, late last year, or maybe it was early 2022. Yeah.
Brandy Walton (04:25):
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Jamie Lee (04:27):
Wow.
Brandy Walton (04:28):
Um, time has really flown by.
Jamie Lee (04:30):
Yeah. So tell us where you were in your career journey when you first started coaching.
Brandy Walton (04:36):
So, in my journey, I was at my previous organization, and one that I'd have to say I, I truly enjoyed the organization as a whole, but internally when I think about myself, um, had a burnout, lack of confidence of what I was doing and why. And, um, having been a coach of field sales teams for so long, and a true believer that you, um, have to have that support, it really made me look internally and say, what else do I need for me to be my best self? And so that's what turned me to find a coach, um, a k a Jamie that could really help pull out the best in me and help me with accountability to move myself forward.
Jamie Lee (05:31):
Thank you for sharing that. And what would you say is the biggest difference that you have in your career journey, in your career experience now?
Brandy Walton (05:42):
Well, one of the things I realized, and you know, I always use this analogy when you think of like the greats, and I know this can be debatable, but like a LeBron James LeBron has a lot of great talent, but when you look at those who surround him, not just his Lakers coach, but the nutritionist, the stretch coach, all of these individuals who really pour into him to make him the quote unquote great LeBron James, I was looking for that same type of support. I think, you know, not to toot my horn that I, I have the core of what it takes to be a great leader, a lot of great skill set and assets, but I wanted to build and have a team that supported me to bring out the best in me. And that's why I turned to executive coaching because it's that tweak between good and greatness, um, that can really give lasting results.
Jamie Lee (06:39):
Amazing. And Brandy, it's okay to toot your own horn <laugh>.
Brandy Walton (06:43):
I know we're working on it. I'll tune it. <laugh>.
Jamie Lee (06:47):
Yeah, we're all loud. I know. We've been conditioned and socialized to be like, oh, we shouldn't be tooting our own horn, but <laugh>, let's just notice that's exactly the problem. So many of us, so many, you know, smart women face in their careers, like, oh no, I can't do my own own horn. And then yeah, they're like, how do I advocate for myself? How do I negotiate for myself? Let's start with,
Brandy Walton (07:07):
You mean you're so right. I'll tune. Yeah. I might not turn the volume up too loud depending on the day, but I'm definitely gonna tune it.
Jamie Lee (07:13):
<laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. It's safe for us to acknowledge our wins safe for us to showcase our wins because, you know, I talk about this in my podcast, it helps other people do their jobs better, actually. And I'm so delighted that you're here to talk about your experience because you really are a great example of somebody like just learning that one skill, like changed your internal as well as your external experience.
Brandy Walton (07:44):
Correct.
Jamie Lee (07:45):
In my, in my perspective. Yeah. So Correct. Tell us like what changed for you.
Brandy Walton (07:52):
Um, the biggest change is my mental focus and how I looked at and how I showed up. I've been one, and, you know, we've talked about this before where, um, I've always done great work, um, but would often lean into perfectionism. I was always gonna give 150%. I was always gonna go there extra mile. Sometimes that leads actually to burnout. It can lead to exhaustion and not taking the time to really refill your coffers. So you can have consistency as well as the endurance can actually have the opposite results that you're seeking. And, um, I have worked and continue to work, um, with intentionality to find that balance.
Jamie Lee (08:45):
Amazing. I I can just see, I can just sense like, hundreds of women, thousands of women who <laugh> may listen to this in the future, they're all nodding their heads vigorously. They're like, yeah, <laugh> hundred 50%. I feel compelled to do that. So I asked Randy if there was a specific topic that she wanted to address on this interview, and she wanted to discuss having confidence in your worth. So I'm curious, Brandy, first of all, how, how do you define having confidence in your worth? What, what does that mean for you?
Brandy Walton (09:24):
Um, for me it means embracing my excellence, um, in all times, whether I'm the only in the room, whether that's an only female, the only African American, but truly embracing, um, my excellence. And it also means, um, giving myself grace when I don't have it. So that confidence piece really all interweaves into the true skillset that we've worked a lot on and that I'll continue to work on and where I've seen the biggest change in my growth.
Jamie Lee (10:02):
Amazing. So before coaching, I'm curious because a lot of people are, you know, are going to resonate with exactly what you're saying. Help us understand like what got in the way of having confidence in your worth, like really embracing your excellence and being able to give yourself grace. Like what got in the way of doing that in your career?
Brandy Walton (10:28):
If I'm totally honest here, I I think
Jamie Lee (10:31):
You do. Please do.
Brandy Walton (10:32):
Okay. I would say 99% of the times it was me. And when I said what I mean by that, it's that internal talk of is this enough? Am I enough? Should I do more? Um, because not having that tribe to kind of build into you and not recognizing that you are your tribe and you are your celebration,
Jamie Lee (10:59):
Um, it's so good, so good. <laugh> you those
Brandy Walton (11:02):
Internal conversation. Yes, you are your tribe. And so those internal conversations can sometimes drown out even that the, you know, the quote unquote validation that you're getting externally. And then the, so that internal validation should be the loudest voice, and that is what I'm learning loud and clear. And, you know, and I'll say I, I have to be intentional in the practice, but I'm with the coaching, it is becoming, starting to become second nature to where I'm now actually even aware when I'm not doing it, and I can quickly tweak and pivot to make sure that I am
Jamie Lee (11:44):
So good. So thank you so much for sharing that. And one thing that I just wanna highlight is that I, I've had the same problem, or you know, that internalized, uh, some people call it the inner critic, sometimes I call it the it bitty shitty committee,
Brandy Walton (12:01):
Right? <laugh>.
Jamie Lee (12:04):
And for me, before I learned coaching tools and became a coach, I thought it just meant that I was doing something wrong because I had that itty bitty shitty committee whispering in my head. I, I meant hearing it, hearing that voice meant that there was something wrong with me. But I think what's beautiful about what you just shared is like, you're like, no, I, I recognize it and I recognize I can change it. Yes. And I have authority and agency to change that.
Brandy Walton (12:33):
Yes. And, and I think, you know, we've talked about this, I have had it so long, I thought it was normal. I thought that was what's supposed to <laugh> that was supposed to drive me to something else mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but when I really started focusing on, on that internal and self-validation, that's when you own your power to change the perspective.
Jamie Lee (12:55):
A hundred percent. And, um, one thing that I just wanna add is, for so many people, this does feel normal and we don't understand why it feels so normal. And that's because of socialization. Like we've all been taught, especially women, especially women of color, we've been taught to programmed to think in that way to second guess our excellence.
Brandy Walton (13:21):
Correct.
Jamie Lee (13:22):
Right. To not have confidence in our worth. So I think you taking agency over that, um, reclaiming that authority is so powerful. So the insights are so amazing. But I wonder if there was like a specific moment, or maybe there was like a specific, um, situation that we worked through inside coaching that helped you gain that confidence in your worth.
Brandy Walton (13:50):
Um, I think the <laugh>, well, I know the first time when, when we were actually walking through, we were having a session and we were talking about negotiation Yeah. And owning your worth. And so we were talking about, you know, what I would bring to the table and actually role playing this part out. And when I paused and reflected and listened to myself, I know, you know, in, in, in my industry what I've had, what I've done and what I've delivered. But when I was, you know, reflecting on my words, I, I was actually shocked, <laugh>, because it didn't, the, the conversation of what I delivered did not match. And the only person that owned it was me. And that was kind of the switch for me to really take a look and even be reflective of other times in my career where, um, maybe I never negotiated, or I thought that the initial offer was great, just because I wanted to be a part of these great organizations. And it made me realize that the only voice that's gonna speak loudest for me is myself. And it was a big aha. And I really appreciated and, and learned a lot just through the role play, what to say, how to say, but more often recognizing how I feel when I was saying it, and truly believing and knowing that my value is so much more than just tied to that dollar, but the impact that I can bring.
Jamie Lee (15:26):
So you mean to say you heard yourself mm-hmm.
Brandy Walton (15:30):
<affirmative>,
Jamie Lee (15:31):
And then you were like, oh yeah, I've done these things. This is the impact that I've made. This is the impact that I will make. And it's valuable. It's excellent.
Brandy Walton (15:41):
Absolutely. And Jamie, it made me gimme a swagger bag.
Jamie Lee (15:44):
<laugh>. <laugh>, that's what this is all about. That's what it's all about. Yeah, exactly. I'm, I'm just, uh, channeling the, uh, people who are listening to this and they are probably wondering, what does she say? <laugh>? What, how, what, what was, I'm curious for you, because for me, like I, I've just been teaching these skills for so many years, I, I've sort of become like, um, you know, you, like, you, you, you sort of forget <laugh>.
Brandy Walton (16:15):
Right.
Jamie Lee (16:16):
What becomes second nature to you? So I'm, I'm really curious to hear from you, Brandy, what was something that was different in terms of like what you said or how you said, like, you don't have to go into the specifics, but maybe, um, maybe you could give us like a summary of like what was different in what you said and how you said
Brandy Walton (16:39):
Yes. I think outside of, in addition to compensation where I wanted to be, I was very articulate on the role that I wanted to perform, as well as the roles in the future that I wanted to, um, grow to. Um, I am one who has aspirations of the C-suite, so it was really important for me to align with an organization that was just as, um, competitive when it came to compensation, but also the development of their team players. So knowing and understanding that even into the scope of the role that I was doing, um, that was very important to me. Um, also talking about and understanding equity. Um, that was something, you know, as a female and a leader, I knew enough to take action, but I really had to learn to ask deeper questions and understand what was going to benefit me in the future. And ironically, I had never done that before. So through, through the coaching and, and the homework homework that you provided me to do, I really felt prepared and I felt confident in what the, that those conversations looked like. And it was one of the times where I can honestly say, you know, it wasn't a nerve wracking experience at all. I, I felt, um, really good in the experience. And I think actually even from a two-way perspective, it re truly was a great alignment.
Jamie Lee (18:15):
Amazing. Amazing. So, uh, just to recap, excuse me. What we did in coaching was I simply asked you like, what would be amazing? What do you want? Right, beyond just the salary amount, what would be the ideal outcome from big picture perspective, like something that serves your career goals for the long term, like something that serves your C-suite ambitions? And then also for the equity we talked about, again, beyond just the dollar amount, let's, let's make sure that we're doing an apples to apples comparison. So some people, including brandy, uh, earn equity compensation at their, uh, company. And so you wanna think about, okay, what is it that I'm walking away from? What is the total value of that? And how can I make sure that what I'm going towards is at least on par, if not better, than the total equity compensation that I'd be walking away from?
Brandy Walton (19:15):
Absolutely. And one only add I would add to that, Jamie, is you helped me take what I was dreaming and put it into an actionable plan. And I think, you know, oftentimes, or at least I have in the past, you, you have these, you know, they're great roles with great companies, and you have these streams, but you don't actually share them <laugh> in the interview process. And you helped me understand how to articulate, um, and prepare to share that as a part of that discussion. And that was a tweak that I had not done before.
Jamie Lee (19:51):
Mm, thank you, <laugh>. I appreciate you sharing that. Um, and as much as I wanna take credit for it, I think, you know, you created these amazing results for yourself because you, um, you were so willing to take action towards your dream, and you are willing to allow yourself to be like, audacious enough to be like, yeah, my dreams are worthy, my dreams are possible for me. I can go towards my dreams as well.
Brandy Walton (20:27):
I, I thank you. Thank you. I, I wanna believe teamwork makes the dream work. So as long as if you can dream it, but you gotta have that right team with you to make it work. So we're a good team.
Jamie Lee (20:39):
<laugh>. I know this is like a love bestest here. So for those, those of you who are listening to this, I just wanna encourage you think about like, what is my dream? What would be my dream come true? What if I can make my dreams, I can turn them into an actionable plan? Actionable plan, whether that is working with a coach or whether that is just like writing it down, thinking it through, why not? Yeah. So let's switch gears. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, let's talk about narratives because, you know, as a coach, I help people rewrite narratives, you know, examine their narratives. And, um, the, the theme of offering yourself grace, which is also a narrative, has been something that you and I have been discussing quite a bit this year. So I'm curious, like what narratives have you consciously chosen that are uplifting and motivating to you?
Brandy Walton (21:37):
Well, I, you know, I've previously mentioned Grace, but there's another one that we have taken, or I've taken some intentionality post coaching to be, um, just almost like my mental mosh mantra. So one of my favorite saying, you sayings used to be, I know enough to be dangerous. Mm-hmm. And a simple tweak that we made was saying, I know enough to take action. And even just shifting to that positive light, um, one, it helps me, it validates me to say, you're smart. You've, you've got the information. Uh, now go make impact is when I just say that tweet to go take action to be dangerous means I could go in, you know, knock out a few bowls, blow some things up, but eventually we'll get there. But just changing it to a positive perspective, meaning, hey, I, I have enough, I'm confident that I can go in and make impact.
(22:38)
And that's been really, um, eye-opening for me. And I actually now say it out loud cuz I say that often in meetings, the other word that we talked a lot about is grace. And I know we're on a podcast and you can't see my office, but like right next to my computer, I have that word written down and it's one that I often reflect to when, you know, I'm the person I wanted 120% every single time. But those days that I give it 95, 99, I just look at that word grace. Mm. And it takes me to a positive perspective and helps me understanding that, you know, you know, tooting my horn loud, you know, my 99 is likely better than someone's a hundred. So, or 120, I'm still giving excellent work. And when I recharge and I re-energize, I can have the stamina to have that consistency moving forward.
Jamie Lee (23:39):
Yes. You don't have to burn yourself out to be, uh, to be excellent in your career. Excellent. Yeah. Because you are the engine, you are the asset that must be taken care of first.
Brandy Walton (23:55):
Nailed it. <laugh>.
Jamie Lee (23:57):
Yeah. So good. So just in case, um, we haven't made it really clear. So Brandy, um, I just wanna make it clear for people who are listening, you have made a career change, right? You went from previous employer, new employer where, uh, you and the company are aligned in terms of career planning, you know, your C-suite ambitions, like you let them know ahead of time. So that's already been something that's been discussed and like acknowledged. Yeah.
Brandy Walton (24:30):
Yes, correct.
Jamie Lee (24:31):
Yeah. And how, how has shifting these narratives, like telling yourself I'm, I know enough to take action and giving myself grace. How, what were the different actions that you took at your new job because of it? Like, I, I heard one, you know, you already said, you're saying it out loud, you're saying out loud, I know enough to take action. And I wonder if there are any other types of actions that you take in your new job because of the narratives?
Brandy Walton (25:00):
Um, yes. Well, one of them is just, and I'll say the things that, you know, that are still consistent first, I'll start there. And that's delivering excellent work that goes without saying, um, and also being in environments and cultures that, um, align to your goals and values. But I think the tweak, um, that I've, um, been here is the intentionality on the work and the projects and the skills that will really continue to grow me as a future leader or future, that future c-suite within the organization. Um, and, and I'm not one that, you know, personally, chase titles and things like that, I chase experiences. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> those that can help grow and excel me. Um, and I've had that throughout my career, but being here and, and starting it upfront at the gate has really kind of even shifted my perspective and intentionality as I do the work that I'm doing now. Um, in wholehearted agreement, uh, agreement. There's, it's hard <laugh>, it's hard, but I, what I love about that is it's exciting. Um, I feel the growth, I'm getting some wins. I'm seeing, you know, how all of the picture and what that transition from a d to a C-suite, um, actually looks like. And so I, it really continues. I'm excited for now, but it also really makes me excited for the future.
Jamie Lee (26:37):
So what I'm hearing is that your career planning became, uh, a lot, lot more on purpose, more explicit and more, um, like you have more buy-in, right? You have buy-in from people that you're working with from the get-go, Hey, this is what we're working towards and we're all on the same page about that.
Brandy Walton (26:59):
Yes. And I've truly been blessed from, um, the leader that I work with now. Um, she is so intentional about development and growth and excellence is her middle name. So I think being really, um, you know, focused that, and that's where I go back to the culture and the people. It does make a difference, um, within that. And she is, she is phenomenal.
Jamie Lee (27:29):
So that's possible too for a lot of people who are listening to this. Yeah. Yeah. You can find a female boss who is aligned with you, who has got your back, who champions for your growth. So Good. And you talked about this earlier, but could we go back to the topic of giving yourself grace mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? I, I heard like an example of that is acknowledging that your 99% is better than somebody else's. A hundred percent. And is there any other example, like what that looks like an action for you?
Brandy Walton (28:12):
It does. So for Grace for me, um, I wanna show up. I wanna be there for the team. I wanna always be the one on. So what that often meant was the phones didn't go off, the iPad didn't stop clicking <laugh>, the emails didn't stop. And my personal and professional life was a very, very mixed blend. But to the point of not refilling my cup and resting, and what I found in this new culture, um, and first for myself is that I must have rest for me to be my best. That is, I
Jamie Lee (28:53):
Love that coat.
Brandy Walton (28:54):
I love that mantra that goes through my brain. And so I'm very confident in what I deliver every day because I know I'm going to give it my all. But I also have confidence that whenever I close that computer, whether it's six 30 or seven or whenever, that I'm gonna do my due diligence and own the responsibility of getting the rest and the rejuvenation that I need. And so it's made me also, you know, do some lifestyle tweaks. You know, I have to make sure that I go outside every day <laugh>, because we work remotely and yeah. Um, I'm on a different time zone. I made sure that I'm, you know, having nutritious meals and not just sitting at my desk all day and waiting for someone to deliver something. Um, so there has been, I would say also some physical and mental tweaks that really pour into and are starting to show up professionally. I will say I'm not perfect at the mall, but that's where I always circle back to. We talked about earlier, grace, that these small tweaks and changes I've started to see compound and I'm definitely seeing a difference in me professionally and personally.
Jamie Lee (30:04):
So, good. So for those listening to this, it is absolutely possible for you to take good care of yourself, give yourself rest, and aspire and work towards your C-Suite ambition. I agree, Jamie. Yeah. Two things. I, in my opinion, they must go together because if you burn out, if you're not giving yourself the rest, you are not gonna be able to access your c e o brain or your CX O brain.
Brandy Walton (30:35):
Correct. Or you won't. And if you get there, you won't have the endurance for sustainability, and that's remove the key.
Jamie Lee (30:42):
Yeah. Amazing. So before we wrap up, um, I have a question for you. Any advice that you would give to other women, especially smart, driven, ambitious women, women of color right out there who are listening to this?
Brandy Walton (31:01):
I think oftentimes when people think of executive coaching, they think it's for other people. It's for those who have a certain lifestyle or mantra. And I would just encourage those individuals, that executive, if you're thinking of this, if you're listening to the podcast, executive coaching is for you, whatever form you look for it, whether it's joining organizations or getting individual coaches, it truly is the difference maker or the tweak maker for sustainable success. Um, and especially in African American women, I, I'm learning and understanding the importance of having that tribe or having those, that that team surrounding you to help you be excellent, you're gonna be dynamic alone, but just imagine what it would take if you built, have others that are feeding into you to keep propelling youth forward. That's where the sustainability comes from, and that's how you sustain your excellence.
Jamie Lee (32:04):
So, one, I wanna add one more, if that's okay.
Brandy Walton (32:07):
Yeah,
Jamie Lee (32:08):
Yeah. For those people who are like you, somebody who's, you know, always striving towards excellence, but has never negotiated for herself, is there an advice that you would like to offer her in terms of like how to advocate, how to speak up, how to negotiate for herself?
Brandy Walton (32:34):
I think the big thing is because it's, it negotiation. You can't see my virtual air quotes <laugh>, but it can be scary. The first thing I would say is prac, write it out and role play. You will, um, that experience alone, that muscle liberating, will give you the confidence to have that conversation. The other thing is, uh, and I think this is most important in every aspect, is to dream big. Yeah. Once you think you were big, go bigger. Um, because if you're, if you're in that conversation, that means you have what they need, you are who they need and beyond. So definitely lean into your worst.
Jamie Lee (33:21):
So good. I, I, I could continue this conversation for another hour, <laugh>, but we'll save it for our session. Um, okay. <laugh>, yeah. Thank you Brandy, so much for your generous time, uh, your insights, your wisdom, your example. I just know that people are listening to this and they're, they're thinking, wow, you know, it could be possible for me too.
Brandy Walton (33:46):
Absolutely.
Jamie Lee (33:47):
Yeah. Amazing. Thank you.
Brandy Walton (33:50):
Thank you. Have a good one. Talk to you soon.
Jamie Lee (33:57):
If you enjoy this podcast, come to jamie lee coach.com, j a m i e l e e c o a c h.com to get your free ebook. How to ask for a big pay raise and Get It. And if you want expert guidance in your corner to help you achieve greater self-confidence and greater career satisfaction as you grow your skills in negotiating, leading, and influencing as a woman professional, I invite you to book your free one-on-one sales call with me to find out how executive coaching can help you do exactly that. The link is in the show notes. Talk soon.